Opinions on attacking the lead elbow

[Chris O'Leary]

Where do you start to fix this? What steps would you take, MTS (or anyone)?

1. Move the tee closer to the catcher.
2. Reduce the forward lean given the height of the tee (or lower the tee).
3. Bend at the hips, not the upper spine.
4. Start with the bat much flatter. It's much too erect given the height of the tee.
5. Stop the hitting from the top and let the hips pull the shoulders around more.

In general, she's got major plane issues, with the plane of the bat and shoulders out of plane given the height of the tee.

It also means that she's got bigger problems than just not shifting.

P.S. The way she hits from the top -- how her bat head starts moving before her front heel plants -- is my major concern with the phrase "Turn the barrel with the hands." Turning the barrel with the hands is exactly what she's doing in this clip, and it's an indication of an inefficient, handsy, top-down swing.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

For #2

2) Set up the barrel launch by turning the lower body to the target

This gets tricky. Most girls want to rotate their front hip back and usually before the front foot lands. So, they end up pulling off and never getting a weight shift forward. Basically a spin move

If you throw a bat (helicopter drill) you should be throwing with your rear upper leg. The front foot lands and the front leg allows the rear leg to move forward.

You get this kind of look - the rear leg is throwing the barrel

and not this where the front leg straightens too early because the hips are trying to rotate too early and weight is never shifted forward. The rear leg is not throwing the barrel. The sequence is out of whack even with a better barrel position.

More like this guy

MTS ... nice post!

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Where do you start to fix this? What steps would you take, MTS (or anyone)?

You start by teaching how to use the rear leg correctly. Teach her how to use the ground. Teach her the sequential functionality of the rear leg ... an not merely to I/R the rear leg.

This is classic "spinning" of the rear leg IMO ... not even remotely close to tapping into what this girl could do in terms of tapping into the power of her lower body.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So let get this straight, after 13 pages nobody can agree what the front elbow is suppose to do? No wonder there are so many screwed up swings out there. Good luck I hope that you will be able to come to common ground, It get's really tiring reading about who's better than who depending on what day it is. Come on people. Have a Merry Christmas

To me, the lead elbow is a ‘result’ … specifically, it is the result of ‘fusing’ the lead shoulder during the ‘lateral tilt’ segment of the swing. As the lead shoulder moves upwards during the ‘lateral tilt’, there will be a small amount of Internal Rotation of the lead upper arm (humerus) within the lead shoulder socket … the combined action will dictate the initial movement of the lead elbow. A tightness will be felt in the lead shoulder, and this tightness can be referred to as ‘fusion’ … which leads to the segmented ‘connection’ of the bottom hand to the upper torso.

 

[RayR]

Yup,

Don't work on her lower body, move the tee around and bend more and flatten the bat...

Great - she will be able to hit the ball off a tee...

BTW - this was an example from 3 years ago and was never given the turn the barrel thought (at least not by me)

The trouble with all of Chris's advice is that it doesn't address the main issue of not using her lower half correctly. She was taught to spin her hips.

1. Move the tee closer to the catcher.
2. Reduce the forward lean given the height of the tee (or lower the tee).
3. Bend at the hips, not the upper spine.
4. Start with the bat much flatter. It's much too erect given the height of the tee.
5. Stop the hitting from the top and let the hips pull the shoulders around more.

In general, she's got major plane issues, with the plane of the bat and shoulders out of plane given the height of the tee.

It also means that she's got bigger problems than just not shifting.

P.S. The way she hits from the top -- how her bat head starts moving before her front heel plants -- is my major concern with the phrase "Turn the barrel with the hands." Turning the barrel with the hands is exactly what she's doing in this clip, and it's an indication of an inefficient, handsy, top-down swing.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Yup,

Don't work on her lower body, move the tee around and bend more and flatten the bat...

Great - she will be able to hit the ball off a tee...

You're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Her lower body is the least of her problems.

If you stop the (debatable) spinning issues, you'll end up with a top-down swing with major posture and plane issues.

I would fix the bigger problems first.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Yup,

Don't work on her lower body, move the tee around and bend more and flatten the bat...

Great - she will be able to hit the ball off a tee...

BTW - this was an example from 3 years ago and was never given the turn the barrel thought (at least not by me)

The trouble with all of Chris's advice is that it doesn't address the main issue of not using her lower half correctly. She was taught to spin her hips.

The bold above .... IMO, this is her biggest swing issue. She is basically "spinning" her rear leg in her rear hip socket. An argument could be made, that the relationship between her rear hip and rear upper leg (femur), during what should be the "uncoil", is more "coil" than it is "uncoil". The result is that her "uncoil" is poor, resulting in improper body segmentation, improper swing sequence, and overall a poorly powered swing from which her upper body will need to sync to.

This girl, IMO, is a good candidate for learning "the move" ... i.e., learning how to use the ground and properly throw the barrel with her rear leg.

 

[RayR]

Chris,

Look in the mirror - you are applying a band aid to a gushing wound...her lower body was her biggest issue.

And you really need to read better. I did not say stop the spinning and her swing would be great. I wrote this:

the main issue of not using her lower half correctly.

And the fact that you can't see she has spinning issues (debatable was your word) illustrates your lack of understanding of a how a good lower body should work...

You're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Her lower body is the least of her problems.

If you stop the (debatable) spinning issues, you'll end up with a top-down swing with major posture and plane issues.

I would fix the bigger problems first.

 

[RichK]

This girl, IMO, is a good candidate for learning "the move" ... i.e., learning how to use the ground and properly throw the barrel with her rear leg.

Thanks for the responses to my question on this girl, FFS you are getting at what I am trying to pick up here--how do you treat a back-leg spinner? I have a girl we're going to start working with soon on our team that has a hip turn (ie, her hips aren't dead) but "leaks" out the backside by spinning rather than shifting that weight "into" the swing.

My thought is to just start her from scratch and rather than "unlearn" or "fix" something try to build her up properly from the ground up.

I guess I'm wondering and anticipating how hard it is going to be to unlearn that spin move and maybe some ideas on how to break it.

In the fall, we put a block behind her foot, but her first mental image and body move was to try a linear move to clear it -- not what we want obviously.

 

[RayR]

Rich - if she still played - I would have started with the lower half. There is no drive and thus no power. You can't really see in the GIF, but she spinning before her heel plants.

Watch the old guy again

Watch his lead elbow - his lower half is setting it up.
Watch Bustos

Watch her lead elbow- her lower half is setting it up

Where do you start to fix this? What steps would you take, MTS (or anyone)?