OBS at 1B?

[CPEM]

Two scenarios:

Have you ever called OBS on F3 stretching down the line to catch the thrown ball for the out on the BR? Situation I had last night: B1 hits one to F6, who fields the ball cleanly and throws to F3. The throw is a bit off target and F3 steps towards home with her left foot on the foul line just before receiving the throw. BR is coming directly up the foul line and slows/flinches just as the ball is being caught for the out. In my judgment, the BR had the entire orange section of the bag and an unobstructed 3 foot wide path and could have continued unimpeded. OC disagreed. Besides that, even if I did interpret F3's actions as obstruction, in my judgment, BR would not have attained 1B absent the obstruction, so now where do I place the BR? Am I interpreting this correctly, or should I be looking at this differently?

2nd scenario: B1 hits one between F3 and F4. F3 is playing slightly in front of the bag, F4 behind the baseline between 1B and 2B. F3 gets a glove on the hit ball, knocks it down, picks it up and starts running for 1B. F4 had moved over to back up F3, and when she saw that F3 was able to stop the ball, she starts running for 1B for a possible throw. F3 and F4 arrive at 1B ahead of the BR, and the BR is out. At the last instant, F4 realizes that she won't need to receive a throw and discontinues trying to get to 1B and her momentum carries her behind 1B from the white portion to the orange portion. She's about 2 feet behind the base when this happens. BR puts on the brakes just before reaching the base and manages to avoid a train wreck and they merely half-bump/half-hug each other. OC wants obstruction, which I state isn't possible because the BR had already been retired before F4's actions led to the near-train-wreck. However, it got me thinking, what if F4 stood there BEFORE the BR had been retired and it caused BR to slow down and be put out? Do we have obstruction here?

 

[MTR]

Two scenarios:

Have you ever called OBS on F3 stretching down the line to catch the thrown ball for the out on the BR? Situation I had last night: B1 hits one to F6, who fields the ball cleanly and throws to F3. The throw is a bit off target and F3 steps towards home with her left foot on the foul line just before receiving the throw. BR is coming directly up the foul line and slows/flinches just as the ball is being caught for the out. In my judgment, the BR had the entire orange section of the bag and an unobstructed 3 foot wide path and could have continued unimpeded. OC disagreed. Besides that, even if I did interpret F3's actions as obstruction, in my judgment, BR would not have attained 1B absent the obstruction, so now where do I place the BR? Am I interpreting this correctly, or should I be looking at this differently?

The fact that that any part of the base or a path to it is available is completely irrelevant to the rule and never part of the discussion. If this were the other way around, it could be a lane violation, but the lane has no bearing on a possible OBS ruling. An OBS is possible, but this is obviously a HTBT situation. However, from what you offer, sounds like F3 did not impede or hinder the BR's progress without the ball, so no OBS.

If you had ruled OBS, where else would you think to place the BR other than 1B?

2nd scenario: B1 hits one between F3 and F4. F3 is playing slightly in front of the bag, F4 behind the baseline between 1B and 2B. F3 gets a glove on the hit ball, knocks it down, picks it up and starts running for 1B. F4 had moved over to back up F3, and when she saw that F3 was able to stop the ball, she starts running for 1B for a possible throw. F3 and F4 arrive at 1B ahead of the BR, and the BR is out. At the last instant, F4 realizes that she won't need to receive a throw and discontinues trying to get to 1B and her momentum carries her behind 1B from the white portion to the orange portion. She's about 2 feet behind the base when this happens. BR puts on the brakes just before reaching the base and manages to avoid a train wreck and they merely half-bump/half-hug each other. OC wants obstruction, which I state isn't possible because the BR had already been retired before F4's actions led to the near-train-wreck. However, it got me thinking, what if F4 stood there BEFORE the BR had been retired and it caused BR to slow down and be put out? Do we have obstruction here?

Good call on the original, follow-up can be touchy. If you clearly notice that the BR checked up before being put out and you KNOW that it was because of F4's presence, that could be OBS. But only if it kept her from any possibility of reaching the base safely. A BR checking up 10-15' before the base as the base is being tagged is a choice, not OBS. IOW, it must really be OBS, not a perception that it would have been. You see something similar at the younger ages where a runner rounds 3B and stops because the catcher is standing on the base line 50' away. All of a sudden, you have daddy coach on 3B screaming for OBS because of where the catcher was (legally) standing. Again, HTBT.

 

[CoogansBluff]

BR is coming directly up the foul line and slows/flinches just as the ball is being caught for the out.

sounds like F3 did not impede or hinder the BR's progress without the ball, so no OBS.

If the batter slows or flinches because of the fielder being in her path without the ball, isn't that being impeded or hindered?

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Two scenarios:

Have you ever called OBS on F3 stretching down the line to catch the thrown ball for the out on the BR? Situation I had last night: B1 hits one to F6, who fields the ball cleanly and throws to F3. The throw is a bit off target and F3 steps towards home with her left foot on the foul line just before receiving the throw. BR is coming directly up the foul line and slows/flinches just as the ball is being caught for the out. In my judgment, the BR had the entire orange section of the bag and an unobstructed 3 foot wide path and could have continued unimpeded. OC disagreed. Besides that, even if I did interpret F3's actions as obstruction, in my judgment, BR would not have attained 1B absent the obstruction, so now where do I place the BR? Am I interpreting this correctly, or should I be looking at this differently?

Of course there can be obstruction in similar situations by the F3......in your case, I would have to see it to decide.

One of the things as a spectator I was always amazed at was an F3 stubbornly trying to keep contact with the 1st base bag on attempting to receive a throw.

As a coach, I always taught my F3's (when they realized an errant throw was coming), was to break contact with the bag and ensure a clean catch......and then a swipe tag or a retouch of the bag could be completed.

This was especially useful when a throw took the F3 towards home plate......attempting to keep contact with the bag and catch the ball often resulted in collisions. By having the F3 step towards the incoming ball in fair territory....they cannot be guilty of obstruction, and have a better chance at making a swipe tag for the out, at the same time avoiding unnecessary collisions.

As the players get older.....the throws get better....but this is still a skill that can help them as they are older. Older girls mean bigger girls, mean bigger and more impactive collisions.

Coach your girls on how to avoid collisions. You can thank me later.

 

[MTR]

If the batter slows or flinches because of the fielder being in her path without the ball, isn't that being impeded or hindered?

The OP citation of "as the ball is being caught for the out" demonstrates possession of the ball or there cannot be an out. Of course, you can also look at it as the BR reacted in a manner as to not violate the 3' lane rule, not because F3 hindered her advancement. As I noted, the lane has nothing to do with the OBS, but it could have something to do with the runner's actions.

Again, HTBT.

 

[MTR]

Of course there can be obstruction in similar situations by the F3......in your case, I would have to see it to decide.

One of the things as a spectator I was always amazed at was an F3 stubbornly trying to keep contact with the 1st base bag on attempting to receive a throw.

As a coach, I always taught my F3's (when they realized an errant throw was coming), was to break contact with the bag and ensure a clean catch......and then a swipe tag or a retouch of the bag could be completed.

This was especially useful when a throw took the F3 towards home plate......attempting to keep contact with the bag and catch the ball often resulted in collisions. By having the F3 step towards the incoming ball in fair territory....they cannot be guilty of obstruction, and have a better chance at making a swipe tag for the out, at the same time avoiding unnecessary collisions.

As the players get older.....the throws get better....but this is still a skill that can help them as they are older. Older girls mean bigger girls, mean bigger and more impactive collisions.

Coach your girls on how to avoid collisions. You can thank me later.

Which is one reason I noted, in another thread in another file, that 1B is often overlooked when it comes to training.

 

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Which is one reason I noted, in another thread in another file, that 1B is often overlooked when it comes to training.

All of the bases have specific training that is good for only that position.......but you are right....many coaches think......put the tall girl that can hit well at 1st base....and don't teach them to protect themselves.......lol

My oldest never played first until she was a Sr. in HS. (Still made all district...brag)......we got a phenom F8 as a sophomore and the other outfield positions and F2, F5 and F4 were sewed up....so she got moved to F3. She remembered how I coached the position and never had an issue during her Sr. Year.....except for being stung by a bee while executing a play (still made the out).

Never a collision and had the highest F% (For F3's) in the district her Sr. year............

My youngest played first quite a bit......never started Varsity ball....but started her whole JV years......I don't ever remember her having a bad collision either. IJS......it can be coached to not collide and still get the out.

Joel