Number of teams?

[CoogansBluff]

Not sure that I see this as a problem for softball as a whole ...

Let me see if I understand before I put my foot in my mouth -

Let's say there are 1,000 kids who want to play travel ball in a particular state.

You would like the best 50 to play on five A+ teams, the next best 100 to play on 10 teams A/A- teams, the next 100 to play on B+ teams, the worst 100 to play on 10 C teams, etc.?

In other words, you want the talent distributed so that the level of the player is equal the level of the team?

 

[glf0845]

Not sure that I see this as a problem for softball as a whole ...

Let me see if I understand before I put my foot in my mouth -

Let's say there are 1,000 kids who want to play travel ball in a particular state.

You would like the best 50 to play on five A+ teams, the next best 100 to play on 10 teams A/A- teams, the next 100 to play on B+ teams, the worst 100 to play on 10 C teams, etc.?

In other words, you want the talent distributed so that the level of the player is equal the level of the team?

Yes. That is why HS ball is so frustrating because you have a mix of skill level and when your DD is used to playing at a higher level and with more passion it can be painful. That is what A-ball, B-ball, etc. is for. Great players get better playing great players and average players get better playing a lot of games. The bottom of the skill level get better with above average coaching. JMHO

 

[CoogansBluff]

Yes. That is why HS ball is so frustrating because you have a mix of skill level and when your DD is used to playing at a higher level and with more passion it can be painful. That is what A-ball, B-ball, etc. is for. Great players get better playing great players and average players get better playing a lot of games. The bottom of the skill level get better with above average coaching. JMHO

I see your point. I wonder, though, if the concerns expressed in this thread are largely from the perspective of the elite players and those coaching (or attempting to build) elite teams. In areas where this phenomenon is occurring, I can see where it might mean that teams don't do as well at nationals as they would if more of the top players were concentrated and not spread out. It might benefit the true college prospects if that were the case, both in terms of exposure and competition level.

But could the argument be made also that way things seem to be trending now better serves the masses? If a player ranks No. 800 in the state out of 1,000 travel players, it will be tougher for her to advance unless she is pushed by better players. If we had true A+, A, A-, B+, etc., levels, then a B player never gets to compete against an A player, nor even has the chance to be a teammate with an A player. IMO, you have to see your goal up close in order to attain it.

The other thing I'd like to add is that players and parents have a choice of what teams to play on. If the trend is toward a bunch of middling teams and fewer true A+ teams, it's because players and parents are choosing those kinds of teams more and more. Perhaps there's not such a market for A+ teams in that many top players don't want that level of commitment, or they would rather play with teams that are familiar, the teams with girls they know and like, etc. I can see where that's frustrating to the A+ level coach, or certain A+ players, but I wonder if the trend is the result of what most people really want.

 

[Sparky Guy]

I can see where that's frustrating to the A+ level coach, or certain A+ players, but I wonder if the trend is the result of what most people really want.

Had that very thing happen during tryouts. Had a really strong player show up for two days of tryouts. Best hitter there by a long shot. The previous year the girl had played on a very good team the coach never challenged. Offered the girl a spot on my roster. Mom calls up a couple of days later and says the girl does not want to play at the level we are taking our team. UGH!!!! What a waste.

We also took another girl who played on the same team. A couple of days later we have an easy get-to-know-you practice with the kids. A few ground balls and working some basic skills. Nothing that pushed the kids. The dad of the second girl tells me afterwards that his daughter just took more ground balls today than they did all last season at all of the practices combined.

 

[MsDinosaur]

DD decided to leave her old team which was moving from B to A. It wasn't because she couldn't or didn't want to play A ball, but because she wasn't getting the playing time she wanted. She tried out for some A and some B teams and went with a B team, where the coach plans for her to be the #1 catcher. Just like a pitcher needs to pitch, a catcher needs to catch. I think she made a good, well-considered choice based on her priorities.

 

[CoogansBluff]

DD decided to leave her old team which was moving from B to A. It wasn't because she couldn't or didn't want to play A ball, but because she wasn't getting the playing time she wanted. She tried out for some A and some B teams and went with a B team, where the coach plans for her to be the #1 catcher. Just like a pitcher needs to pitch, a catcher needs to catch. I think she made a good, well-considered choice based on her priorities.

That's what I would've done in her case.

But it's not just player development as a catcher that is the issue. It's also what she might enjoy the most. It's fun being the #1 catcher. There also are players who choose teams because they can play infield and bat 3rd vs. playing outfield and batting 9th. They might develop faster if they played for the best team possible, but I think many people overrate the attraction of ''getting better'' for the girls who play travel ball. All players want to get better, of course, but the pursuit of fun usually trumps that except for the rare and very driven player, imo. Being able to play the position you want with a group of girls and coaches that you like is usually more fun than a better team that doesn't offer those things. If they're not quite the player in 5 years that they could've been, then so be it. At least they enjoyed the ride. Their time in softball is short.

 

[MsDinosaur]

But it's not just player development as a catcher that is the issue. It's also what she might enjoy the most. It's fun being the #1 catcher. There also are players who choose teams because they can play infield and bat 3rd vs. playing outfield and batting 9th.

There's that too. DD knows how to play OF (which is important!), but she's neither gifted at it nor does she enjoy it. She couldn't crack the top half of the lineup on her old team either and ended up with far fewer at-bats than she wanted. She's going to be a lot happier playing catcher and batting in the middle of the order.

 

[glf0845]

That's what I would've done in her case.

But it's not just player development as a catcher that is the issue. It's also what she might enjoy the most. It's fun being the #1 catcher. There also are players who choose teams because they can play infield and bat 3rd vs. playing outfield and batting 9th. They might develop faster if they played for the best team possible, but I think many people overrate the attraction of ''getting better'' for the girls who play travel ball. All players want to get better, of course, but the pursuit of fun usually trumps that except for the rare and very driven player, imo. Being able to play the position you want with a group of girls and coaches that you like is usually more fun than a better team that doesn't offer those things. If they're not quite the player in 5 years that they could've been, then so be it. At least they enjoyed the ride. Their time in softball is short.

Coogans,
Getting better is relative. Just playing the game for a season makes most athletes better. For some softball players who want to play at a D1 level school, just getting better is not enough. My DD started in rec ball, then all stars, then B-ball, just like most of the TB girls. She decided to quit pitching because she was a B-ball level pitcher and an A-ball position player. Those who love the game enough to have it as a life style make the choice to do whatever they can to get not just better but elite. I understand that the majority of softball teams/players play for fun but most elite players play for the love of competition at the highest level. Because of the level my DD plays I sometimes forget it's not all about getting to the next level, verbal commitments, making that next team, etc. But for the few who do play that way want to be surrounded by like minded athletes. I probably am sounding elitist and I am trying not to, but am explaining why some girls get frustrated with players who just want to have "fun".

 

[MsDinosaur]

But for the few who do play that way want to be surrounded by like minded athletes. I probably am sounding elitist and I am trying not to, but am explaining why some girls get frustrated with players who just want to have "fun".

I don't see DD headed for a major D1. However, this is one concern I have. DD cares. She works hard. She practices extra and takes outside hitting and catching lessons. She doesn't have a lot of patience with girls who aren't up to her standards as a softball player. I think I need to have a talk with her before the team practices begin about managing her expectations. Some of these girls are coming up from C ball and are simply not going to be at the skill level she's used to. It's ok if she gripes to me privately in the car, but when she's with her team, IMO she should be a good teammate with a positive attitude. I believe the coaching staff can bring these girls up rapidly, especially if the whole team pulls together. So when she gets frustrated, I hope she remembers to "fake it till you make it."

 

[Phathead]

I don't see DD headed for a major D1. She doesn't have a lot of patience with girls who aren't up to her standards as a softball player. I think I need to have a talk with her before the team practices begin about managing her expectations. Some of these girls are coming up from C ball and are simply not going to be at the skill level she's used to. ."

I am not knocking your DD she seems driven and has high expectations but there will be more times under different circumstances and she will have to learn how to deal with the same type problem (group school work) etc. Story 12u: last yr short a player and was talking to a dad of a player on higher level team. He volenteered his DD. She is very driven and excellant player. She showed up and I could tell she was out of place. My team is a play hard and have fun low B skill team. I pulled her to the side and told her to relax and enjoy just playing. I played her in posistions she had never played but was more than capable of playing and just due to pure athletic skills and drive she excelled at them. Ran into her dad a week later and he told me how she talked about that weekend and it was one of the best she had playing softball in a long time. So I think there is a place for all players of skill level and they can all improve playing like levels and of course it should be fun since it is a game after all.