No swing rule on 3-0 count

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Nov 18, 2015
1,585
113
To add to my previous comment - for our last game or two, I did add a caveat to my "if you can hit it, swing away" instruction - I forget where I just heard it (too many videos watched and podcasts listened to!) - but it's basically "look for your pitch, but don't chase".

For my 10U players - that's my worry - the chasing part. I think it's a concept they can understand as well. I'll let y'all know how well that works once Fall tournaments start.
 
May 20, 2016
433
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While i advocate not swinging on a 3-0 count in most cases, i also wouldn't make that an absolute rule. Run on third strike no matter what yes that's an absolute, but take on 3-0 nah. Depends on hitter.

Maybe it's just something i remember more but seems that most times i've told them to swing away or seen it happen on my dd's team they always seem to be dribblers that are easy put outs. That bugs me more than having them take to be honest. Feel like you let the pitcher off the hook. But maybe it's just my perception, never really went back to look at the numbers.
 
Oct 4, 2018
4,596
113
While i advocate not swinging on a 3-0 count in most cases, i also wouldn't make that an absolute rule. Run on third strike no matter what yes that's an absolute, but take on 3-0 nah. Depends on hitter.

Running to first on a third strike isn't an absolute either. At least for me.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,712
113
Chicago
Against a good pitcher, how does a kid get the count to 3-0? By being a disciplined hitter at the plate. So, she is seeing the ball and she understands the umpire's strike zone.

Seems to me that is exactly the kind of hitter you want swinging the bat.

I can think of maybe a dozen girls on our teams off the top of my head who have a really good grasp of the strike zone, but they're not great hitters.

"Disciplined" has very little to do with how one fares when actually swinging the bat.

I'm not arguing for a "never swing on 3-0" rule though. I prefer our players take in this situation most of the time (based on the level of play, our hitters' ability to hit for extra bases, typically high-scoring games where you want people on base, etc), but in general, any rule that is "all" or "never" in a game where there are so many possible situations is silly.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
Many years ago my DD1 was on a 14u LL team.
The coaches were trying to teach the kids some patience in the batters box, at a level when some of the pitchers had trouble finding the plate. The coaches wanted to force the opposing pitchers to throw strikes.

For a while, the coaches had a rule that the batters couldn’t swing until they got the green light from the coaches. That drove some parents crazy, because some of the parents were of the always swing at the first pitch philosophy.

Eventually the coaches stopped the rule. I know my DD1 got to be quite good at judging balls and strikes during that time.

If a parent has a good relationship with a coach, the parent can bring the matter up in a non confrontational manner. Assuming the parent knows how to do so without undermining the coach. It could be the coach has a good reason, or it could be the coach is willing to consider exceptions to the rule.
 
Jul 13, 2019
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Baseball and softball are games of percentages. You just trying to get the odds in your favor. I just heard a college coach say that the way they score is with walks and doubles. So, if you have a 3-0 count and the pircher is struggling to get it over take the walk. However, on the next pitch 3-1 the chances are that you should get a good pitch to hit so here I want my kid ready to swing not looking to get a walk. Like some one said earlier i think it depends on the age group and the situation.
 
Sep 26, 2016
6
3
I know it's probably been discussed but I can't find it in the forums. What is your view on a coach telling the entire team we will never swing with a 3-0 count? I've always told my daughter not to be up there looking for a walk and that the next pitch with a 3-0 count will probably be the best pitch she sees all night. While going over new signs at practice our coach made this announcement that "we will never swing with a 3-0 count" no sign needed - just don't swing. I haven't discussed it with my daughter and she hasn't said anything. I don't want to go against the coach's directions. Of course, in our first scrimmage my daughter has a 3-0 count on her and sends the next pitch to left center for a double. Coach doesn't say anything but if she does it again I'm sure she's going to hear about it. Any thoughts one way or the other?

For a seasoned player with a good eye for zones, the better advice usually is that 3-0 means the zone is tightened to "your perfect pitch" (whereas on the other end of the count a 0-2 means the zone is well outside your comfort zone and needs a foul-off if it isn't in your "good" zone). There is also the risk factor to take in - the risk that a player will misread the pitch and turn a rise-going-high from a ball into a pop-up out, but, again, this only applies to seasoned players with well established zones. Often the pitch at 3-0 will be a "back to basics" pitch; obviously what the pitcher did the last three times didn't work out, so they will pull mechanics back or aim more center of plate. If the pitcher pulls back on speed, that batter also needs to be good at generating their own power in the swing (ie, good hand speed, not just reflecting the speed of the pitch), which is often not the case in younger divisions.

I hear the "do not ever swing on a 3-0 count" rule primarily coming from coaches where the team is having trouble discerning an "okay" pitch from a "that's gonna be a double up the middle" pitch. The rationale is that it is better - statistically - to give up a strike and work with a 3-1 count, than the likelihood of swinging at that fourth ball and getting out (or a double play if there are players on base). This is especially true when the pitcher has a lot of spin movement on the ball.

Usually the coach stating this will except players who both have a proven track record of discerning their "perfect" pitch from something destined for a grounder to second, and who have shown a good record of hitting well against this specific pitcher. But, this shouldn't be at the player's discretion, but instead by the coach specifically giving the batter a "swing away" sign even at 3-0. If your daughter swung at that 3-0 pitch despite both the "general rule" and the coach's sign before the pitch, then I would expect some talking to and consequences if the coach is doing their job. The ends don't justify the means; disobeying clear orders from a coach is never laudable.
 
May 15, 2008
1,902
113
Cape Cod Mass.
We typically have a 3-0 take for all our players. A pitcher goes 3-0 because they are having trouble executing, now all of sudden they're going 'find it' and throw a ball right down the middle then follow that up with another strike? Not likely enough to let our girls swing. Add to that the fact that our kids swing at plenty of bad pitches in other counts, why is 3-0 going to be any different. Elite teams with quality hitters facing good pitching probably do it differently.
 
Aug 5, 2015
85
8
We typically have a 3-0 take for all our players. A pitcher goes 3-0 because they are having trouble executing, now all of sudden they're going 'find it' and throw a ball right down the middle then follow that up with another strike? Not likely enough to let our girls swing. Add to that the fact that our kids swing at plenty of bad pitches in other counts, why is 3-0 going to be any different. Elite teams with quality hitters facing good pitching probably do it differently.
Exactly, I think most people here as vastly overestimating the skill level of almost every pitcher in softball. You wouldn't see 9 hole hitters with a ton of walks in D1 P5 play if pitchers could throw meatballs on command.
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
We typically have a 3-0 take for all our players. A pitcher goes 3-0 because they are having trouble executing, now all of sudden they're going 'find it' and throw a ball right down the middle then follow that up with another strike? Not likely enough to let our girls swing. Add to that the fact that our kids swing at plenty of bad pitches in other counts, why is 3-0 going to be any different. Elite teams with quality hitters facing good pitching probably do it differently.

This is not always true. At lower levels/younger ages, often pitchers can hit a fastball down the middle even if they're all over the place with their location on other called pitches. The coach might call that to help her reset. Or, sometimes you get an umpire with at tiny zone. Pitcher might be great at hitting the corners but they're not giving them to her. She may try to give it more plate on a 3-0 count.
 

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