My DD swing...

[RookKev]

Ok. But with those of us less limber, those hips can only go so far before yank the shoulders around. So the front shoulder will have to leave 'the zone'. (I think with my son, it is a fear of the ball, not an attempt at power, but he and I will talk about that).

I will do some searchign on the off speed posts of yours. Thank you.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Yes ... you want the upper torso to be pulled/yanked by the lower torso. The idea is not to initiate the powering of the swing with the lead shoulder ... at the same time you do not want to prevent the transfer of energy. The shoulders will be rotated open ... just not the first move, more like you described ... they are pulled into rotation by the lower torso.

 

[softballphreak]

FFS, what do you think of the John Mallee videos?

‪John Mallee 6 Steps of a Major League Swing Hitting Tips‬‏ - YouTube

‪John Mallee's 6 Absolutes of a Professional Hitter‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Mr T]

Phreak that seems pretty informative. One thing to be careful for moms and pops watching it is he stresses the swing goes from the ground up, foot, knee, hips, ...

That's a bit confusing. That's perhaps what it looks like on video, but the batter is using the core muscles to snap the hips. People watching this video could get the idea that you fire your swing using your foot. If you do that, basically you are squishing the bug, and you are either firing your hips with your calf muscle which will be very weak and slow hip movement, or you will be spinning on your back toe.

 

[Wellphyt]

Talking with a coach after tryouts and trying to get a feel for what they teach for hitters. What I ran into today was a strange comment about rotational mechanics committing too much to a fastball sequence of pitching and no ability to adjust to adjust to a change up because of the load and stride. My argument to that was, usually a change up is not thrown for a strike, it is supposed to drop down out of the strike zone, and a girl striding properly and beginning the swing with her lower body will hopefully recognize the off speed pitch in time to lay off of it with her hands, whereas a more linear approach will typically get those hands in the swing too early to stop them. This coach went on to talk about the stride being done before the pitch is in the air, to help stop the girls from stepping out of the box. I understand that conceptually, but, it feels like you would be creating a broken swing....or very stuttered.

We had a good conversation, and ultimately, he did say if the girls have their own hitting coach, he doesn't get in the way or try to overrule them. I'm curious though, about a coach that says something like that, because, if she does struggle, what does he do? Just work between the ears, and stay away from the mechanics? Seems like a slippery slope. Oh, and the other thing, pulling the front shoulder out of the swing, and dropping the back shoulder. Both are things we have 'always' been taught not to do, but with the rotational swing, both seem to be components that have to occur to create the proper swing (from my very limited exposure).... do these both have to happen? IF so, what is the proper 'argument'/discussion manner for walking a coach through it who maybe hasn't seen that yet. How do you hit an outside pitch when pulling the front shoulder? The standard argument was you pull the bat out of the strike zone, very much like stepping out on the stride....

I love to have our pitchers throw change-ups to linear hitters. Get them out on their front foot and you get an easy little grounder. Or, sometimes you get an infield pop-up when they slice the backside of the ball as they swing down on a ball going down.

The better rotational hitters give our pitchers fits. We faced a couple last year that hit the ball hard no matter what we tried. When we tried changing speeds, they were able to keep their weight back and kill it. We could never get them out on their front foot.

I am always working on my daughter's swing. However the one thing she has never done is pull her head or front shoulder off the ball. She usually hits the outside pitch hard to the right side. The kids that I see pulling off the outside pitch, do so because they are pulling their head out. The body follows the head. As long as a hitter tracks the ball the front shoulder should stay in long enough to cover all pitch locations.

The coach you spoke to needs to be educated. You may suggest he read "The Science of Hitting" or read Jen Yee's hitting blog. Much of what Yee talks about comes from Dave Paetkau, which sounds very similar to how Ted Williams described the swing in "The Science of Hitting".

The hips have to lead the hands in order to get the most efficient barrel path. Yee and Williams explain this in detail. If the hips are restricted, if they don't get out in front, the hands can't get into a strong position. Go try and skip a rock without turning your hips.

Shoulder tilt is necessary to prevent lunging and getting onto the front foot. Take some swings with level shoulders while swinging level to the ground or swinging down, all while trying to keep your shoulders from turning. Can you do that without getting onto your front foot?

 

[RookKev]

I agree with pretty much everythig Wellphyt, but I'm a new scrub to all this. Just having the conversation I did with this coach was quite possibly pushing the limits of a new dad who doesn't even have a DD in comp ball. So, I have to tread very carefully when talking with someone who has been coaching for 15 years.... ultimately, I just wanted to see if he was willing to let a hitter alone, if he understood her mechanics were a different philosophy than he employed.

 

[Wellphyt]

I agree with pretty much everythig Wellphyt, but I'm a new scrub to all this. Just having the conversation I did with this coach was quite possibly pushing the limits of a new dad who doesn't even have a DD in comp ball. So, I have to tread very carefully when talking with someone who has been coaching for 15 years.... ultimately, I just wanted to see if he was willing to let a hitter alone, if he understood her mechanics were a different philosophy than he employed.

I sympathize with you because I went through the same thing with my daughter in Middle School. The coach said my daughter was pulling her front shoulder out and wouldn't be able to hit the outside pitch. He was looking at her swing through the eyes of someone who taught a linear hands-to-the-ball swing.

He used to throw batting practice to her on the outside corner to try and get her to miss the ball so he could say "see, your missing the ball because you are pulling off". My daughter would just line it to the right side. You could see the coach trying to figure out how she was able to square up the outside pitch. He left her alone for the most part because she hit well.

I had a local high school coach actually asked me to have my daughter demonstrate how she could hit both the inside and outside pitch. For those of us who played pin-ball growing up, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Wellphyt]

Phreak that seems pretty informative. One thing to be careful for moms and pops watching it is he stresses the swing goes from the ground up, foot, knee, hips, ...

That's a bit confusing. That's perhaps what it looks like on video, but the batter is using the core muscles to snap the hips. People watching this video could get the idea that you fire your swing using your foot. If you do that, basically you are squishing the bug, and you are either firing your hips with your calf muscle which will be very weak and slow hip movement, or you will be spinning on your back toe.

Agree. As an instructor you have to make a choice. Do you want to teach the hitter to push the hips forward with the rear foot; or do you want the weight shift of the hips unweighting the rear foot.

 

[softballphreak]

What I tell the kids is that the foot starts the move and the hips immediately take over. The risk of the hips starting is that too many want to spin the hips. I know the hips lead; I'm talking about starting.

I think the videos are great but like anything else they need explanation to go along with them. They're the best I've found, instruction wise. The simplest for sure. Wish we had a female doing it.

 

[Wellphyt]

What I tell the kids is that the foot starts the move and the hips immediately take over. The risk of the hips starting is that too many want to spin the hips. I know the hips lead; I'm talking about starting.

I think the videos are great but like anything else they need explanation to go along with them. They're the best I've found, instruction wise. The simplest for sure. Wish we had a female doing it.

"The hip movement is a spinning action with the head as the axis".
Ted Williams, The Science of Hitting

If a hitter first turns their hips back (coils or cocks their hips), and then reverses the coil off of a firm rear leg using their butt muscles...Without purposely doing anything with the rear leg or foot except counter acting the forces created at the ground during the coil and reversal of the coil. The hips should launch off of the firm rear leg without any help from the back foot.

The muscles at the back foot are tiny compared to the giant muscles in your butt. Right ladies? IMO, the tiny muscles in the foot aren't powerful enough to reverse the hips and launch them forward. There is a big difference between actively pushing off the ground with the rear foot to turn the hips forward, and the rear foot pushing back against the forces generated when the hips reverse.