More early batspeed?

[julray]

Same tee height and location, Donaldson demo on the left, Donaldson Actual swing on right. Donaldson's initial movement is "down to".




When you add force on the barrel, body tilt, core engagement.. is this position really that different than what Pujois is demoing. Now I get Pujois barrel will level out deeper than what he is demoing, however he is not in a FYB position in the demo, he is not engaging his core, the barrel is not reacting to force on it.. if all these factors and more were added to the demo the barrel would arc deeper/not as steep, like Donaldson in the still above. Yes I believe Pujois is down to, like most great hitters. I am not speaking for W=w, just my 2 cents.

 

[_MIA_]

When you add force on the barrel, body tilt, core engagement.. is this position really that different than what Pujois is demoing. Now I get Pujois barrel will level out deeper than what he is demoing, however he is not in a FYB position in the demo, he is not engaging his core, the barrel is not reacting to force on it.. if all these factors and more were added to the demo the barrel would arc deeper/not as steep, like Donaldson in the still above. Yes I believe Pujois is down to, like most great hitters. I am not speaking for W=w, just my 2 cents.

If you get all of things right which you mentioned he was not doing in the demo all you pretty much need to do at that point "is see the ball hit the ball". I don't doubt his intent at all but I am not sure it matters much.

 

[julray]

If you get all of things right which you mentioned he was not doing in the demo all you pretty much need to do at that point "is see the ball hit the ball". I don't doubt his intent at all but I am not sure it matters much.

I'd argue that it matters a lot. Pujois is not an outlier here, and their performance speaks for itself. However the video will not be meaningful for everybody, depends how you interpret it.

 

[_MIA_]

I'd argue that it matters a lot. Pujois is not an outlier here, and their performance speaks for itself. However the video will not be meaningful for everybody, depends how you interpret it.

Fair enough. It won't matter though if you don't get all of the other stuff correct...probably should worry about that first no?

Edit: Again I ask who are we are trying to "one up here". Even the "one who shall not be named" has agreed that the greats swing down...

 

[julray]

Fair enough. It won't matter though if you don't get all of the other stuff correct...probably should worry about that first no?

It's all important, I mean you want a complete swing. Which part you should worry about first depends on what you need to work on I guess. I think Pujois has a pretty solid base to build on , he certainly has earned the respect to demo this phase of his swing. People will worry about and work on what they need to.

 

[Work=wins]

W=w for the love of God and all things holy can you explain to me and everyone else how the Pujols video of knob to the ball = his game swing. Please specifically address these points.

1. At no point in his demo swing does his barrel get below his hands. In all his games swing his barrel is below his hands. Why is that?

2. If you take knob to ball on an outside pitch you will be disconnected and casting. His live swings do not reflect this.

Do you accept that he could be relating a feel that he has. And that "feel" is not what is really happening, although that feel helps him do the real.

Help me understand, because my lying eyes see him say one thing and do another.

They both can't be right:

This video at 7:30:

James,

imo, the barrel is felt to be above the hands because although the barrel is below the hands in relation to the ground, the barrel is felt to be above the hands in relation to the body. Because it is... More specifically the head, but in reality the spine.

When you are sitting on your bed, you feel level to the ground right? But are you? How about when you lie down on your bed?





So the feel of barrel above the hands is a FEEL and a REAL of a level swing. Measurement is from the body not the ground. Make sense?

 

[james27503]

View attachment 16470 View attachment 16472

Same tee height and location, Donaldson demo on the left, Donaldson Actual swing on right. Donaldson's initial movement is "down to".


View attachment 16473

When you add force on the barrel, body tilt, core engagement.. is this position really that different than what Pujois is demoing. Now I get Pujois barrel will level out deeper than what he is demoing, however he is not in a FYB position in the demo, he is not engaging his core, the barrel is not reacting to force on it.. if all these factors and more were added to the demo the barrel would arc deeper/not as steep, like Donaldson in the still above. Yes I believe Pujois is down to, like most great hitters. I am not speaking for W=w, just my 2 cents.

View attachment 16474 View attachment 16475 View attachment 16477 View attachment 16478

Nobody argues Down To. Nobody. The question is down to from what direction. Is it down to and across the body the "chop" swing they all demo or is it down to from behind. The term down to and up through is correct. But the swing they demo is down to and through.

I can get into a perfectly leveraged position and do that chop swing. So saying that when you add in these elements the chop swing suddenly becomes what we see games swings is like magic dust. It is an illusion. Intent and results can vary greatly.

IMO all this debate over trying to figure out why guys like Pujols say one thing a do another or trying to explain how they really aren't (which is absurd) is what forums like this are for. But how does that help a kid. Does it help a kid to tell them what Pujols is saying? It may, but half the kids will take you literally (as I would have) and pound the ball into the ground if they are lucky enough to hit it.

Another thing you can't do is go with what ARod and Pujols say while ignoring Ted Williams. The reason why is very simple. Some players "feel" alone is all they need. Some players you say swing down like chopping and that is exactly what they do.

IMO the best teaching method is not to show somebody something they aren't going to do. Put them in drills that will result in desired results without taking the risk of really confusing people. Because that whole chop swing stuff in confusing. I mean you and W=w have said and others that you have to "interpret" what they are saying. Well that is just unacceptable. Ain't nobody got time for that.

This to me is the daddy of all the drills. I like the drop bat drill too.



This drill teaching down to and up through. If they can drive this ball straight up the middle consistently then you are on your way.

 

[TDS]

The greats are all saying they don't want the turn dump Ferris wheel move.

 

[clemenslee1]

The greats are all saying they don't want the turn dump Ferris wheel move.

In context he didn't say anything against a ferris wheel swing. He just said for him he doesn't do that. To me its just a misconception and play on words, not what he is saying, but the whole down to vs ferris wheel. As he even said its dependent on pitch location. Even those who advocate for the ferris wheel swing know you're going to flatten out the swing the higher in the zone and probably are going to take hands to the ball more on the inside pitch to catch it out front. A large part of of the confusion I think is, because they are trying to compensate for certain tendencies. Like Koby Briant said in a interview one time, If the ball keeps going to the left when I shoot, I'm aiming to the right more to bring the shot back in line. If you listen to a lot of the reasons why some of these players talk about down to the ball is because they are compensating for tendencies of getting under the ball and popping up. So, what do they do? they start trying to adjust by "going down," "get on top" etc. You can go to extremes on both ends. Its a balancing act imo.

 

[TDS]

In context he didn't say anything against a ferris wheel swing. He just said for him he doesn't do that. To me its just a misconception and play on words, not what he is saying, but the whole down to vs ferris wheel. As he even said its dependent on pitch location. Even those who advocate for the ferris wheel swing know you're going to flatten out the swing the higher in the zone and probably are going to take hands to the ball more on the inside pitch to catch it out front. A large part of of the confusion I think is, because they are trying to compensate for certain tendencies. Like Koby Briant said in a interview one time, If the ball keeps going to the left when I shoot, I'm aiming to the right more to bring the shot back in line. If you listen to a lot of the reasons why some of these players talk about down to the ball is because they are compensating for tendencies of getting under the ball and popping up. So, what do they do? they start trying to adjust by "going down," "get on top" etc. You can go to extremes on both ends. Its a balancing act imo.

The bigger message in all of this is what causes the down swing they all speak of ?

During BP Barry tells JF ‘ I get into a position so if the ball is here, I’m here, if it’s here I’m here’. Hitting in a nutshell. He even shows the depth at where he wants his delivery of the barrel.