Look at this guy.

[softball_chic_12]

there's a field near my house where a men's league will practice and play. i enjoy going to watch them play becasue it's so different. Their balls are hit much father, and the pitching is different. and even their catchers are different! the one night, a teammate and i were talking to one of the mens' players and they were fascinated with how we play softball (these men were either on a ball field or in their fields working. they didn't get out much). I knew about the differences of mens' fastpitch because my dad played. And sometimes i wonder if we played a mens' team, how we would do.....it would deffinetly be an interesting sight!

 

[Hillhouse]

80 m.p.h doesn't surprise me. I play with and against several pitchers that have been clocked just a notch below that. One fellow has reached 77 and his pivot foot barely leaves the ground. Maybe if he jumped like this guy he would gain that extra three miles per hour!

This pitcher is Craig Pidcock. He lives in the Vancouver area.

80mph? LOL. Excuse me but um.... no. The speeds in men's fastpitch are extremely exaggerated. The fastest pitcher in the world (Adam Folkard of Australia) throws 86. Pidcock is not even close. But I know Craig well (we were even teammates once) and I'm sure he'd be flattered. I'm not a math wiz but 86 mph equates to some ridiculous number of speed in baseball. I can merely shake my head at those who claim to throw 100+ mph pitches or believe someone has in the past. The liberal pitching rules today allow the top pitcher to throw 86, NO WAY did someone in yesteryear who pitched with those rules threw 100+. But it's funny to hear.

Pidcock is throwing a riseball here... the pitch he generally throws 75% of the time. LOL. And the reason he gives up so many homeruns. LOL

While it's true the speed difference in men's and women's fastpitch is substantial. It's the movement which boggles the mind. I get a lot of Division 1 college players and college bound players who want to take live batting practice off me to face riseballs, dropballs, etc. As I throw simple BP, it takes them a long time to adjust to the sharpness of movement in the pitches. The US Women's team uses male pitchers for BP and their tours for this purpose too. My personal belief for the difference in movement has NOTHING to do with the strength that men possess, which obviously CAN have an effect on a male pitcher speed (but does not mean they are also using correct fundamental mechanics) but is has to do with the mechanics that SOOOOOOOOOOO many young girls are taught at the start of their pitching "careers" which prohibit actual the movement that they could get otherwise. The reality is, our bodies are designed to work a certain way to get maximum results. When people teach against those principals it truly restricts what they are able to do long term.

I don't know of any male pitchers who throw a "circle change". I don't even know what a "circle change" is, and I'm an ok pitcher. The circle has very very very little to do with the change up. It's still entirely relies on how the pitch is "snapped" or not snapped with removes the speed. Not a circle.

Bill

 

[Amy in AZ.]

The circle that I refer to is his finger position. It is like the OK sign. Perhaps you call it something else.

He did not claim to throw 80, the batter said that it looked like that to him. Sorry, for the misunderstanding.

I just liked the picture.

 

[Hillhouse]

Amy

I know Craig well, who pitched this. I know he wouldn't say that. I was just making a blanket statement about the exaggerate the speeds.

I still say this was a riseball.

Bill

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

The reality is, our bodies are designed to work a certain way to get maximum results. When people teach against those principals it truly restricts what they are able to do long term.

Bill - what specifically are you referring to? I have your DVD (which is good) but IMO it does not go into great detail how to generate optimum movement on the drop ball (which I think you stated should be your "fastball"). I would love to know what the boys are doing at a young age which is different than the way girls are taught.

 

[Hillhouse]

It's not so much that I think boys are doing things differently, per say. Boys are not exactly playing fastpitch in high numbers so it's hard to say it that way. I'm just saying that what I see girls doing and being taught prohibit them from doing things that give them explosive movement. Certain drills, certain mechanical things, etc.

The main thing that is needed for the movement, which I did elaborate in the DVD is the elbow whip. That alone is neglected by sooooooo many people and restricts movement.

Bill

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

It's not so much that I think boys are doing things differently, per say. Boys are not exactly playing fastpitch in high numbers so it's hard to say it that way. I'm just saying that what I see girls doing and being taught prohibit them from doing things that give them explosive movement. Certain drills, certain mechanical things, etc.

The main thing that is needed for the movement, which I did elaborate in the DVD is the elbow whip. That alone is neglected by sooooooo many people and restricts movement.

Bill

I would agree that the elbow whip from 3 o'clock through release seems to be a neglected area in pitching mechanics, with more emphasis on stride, arm circle, etc. It almost seem that arm whip is an afterthought.

Question, my DD gets some sharp downward movement when doing a drill where her lower body is fixed (turned 45 degrees but shoulders square to target) and she throws the pitch with all upperbody. Without debating whether this is a good drill or not, do you know why she would be generating more spin with this drill that when she goes into her full pitching motion? We are trying to replicate this downward spin on her "fastball". Thanks.

 

[Hillhouse]

Without seeing her, I would have to venture a guess only. The main reason I'm not a fan of this drill (or others like it) when a pitcher stays stationary is because she is unable to work on her timing. Arms and legs need to be in sync and moving together, with direct proportion to the speed of the pitching motion. In doing this drill, she's not teaching herself timing. Therefore, when she does go full motion, in all likelihood, she's not able to achieve the same spin and rotation because her timing has been effected. Do not underestimate how important that is.... that is a trap that many people fall into when they do these monkey see monkey do drills. Those are the drills that a lot of people do but almost none of them can explain to you what the hell it's for or what they are trying to accomplish. They do it because their "coach" told them too, and more often than not the coach doesn't even know why. He/she saw it or did it when they were young and just assumed it has a purpose. Which segways into wrist flips and how they work against the arm whip we were just discussing earlier.

Bill

When a pitcher does wrist flips, they generally keep a straight elbow. This teaches them muscle memory of pitching with a straight arm, rather than whipping the elbow through. Forget how useless this drill is for a second, think of the negative memory it's teaching the body. If it wasn't doing any harm but was just useless, then I'd say "more power to you" for doing them. But this one actually does more harm than good in many many cases.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Without seeing her, I would have to venture a guess only. The main reason I'm not a fan of this drill (or others like it) when a pitcher stays stationary is because she is unable to work on her timing. Arms and legs need to be in sync and moving together, with direct proportion to the speed of the pitching motion. In doing this drill, she's not teaching herself timing. Therefore, when she does go full motion, in all likelihood, she's not able to achieve the same spin and rotation because her timing has been effected. Do not underestimate how important that is.... that is a trap that many people fall into when they do these monkey see monkey do drills. Those are the drills that a lot of people do but almost none of them can explain to you what the hell it's for or what they are trying to accomplish. They do it because their "coach" told them too, and more often than not the coach doesn't even know why. He/she saw it or did it when they were young and just assumed it has a purpose. Which segways into wrist flips and how they work against the arm whip we were just discussing earlier.

Bill

When a pitcher does wrist flips, they generally keep a straight elbow. This teaches them muscle memory of pitching with a straight arm, rather than whipping the elbow through. Forget how useless this drill is for a second, think of the negative memory it's teaching the body. If it wasn't doing any harm but was just useless, then I'd say "more power to you" for doing them. But this one actually does more harm than good in many many cases.

Thanks Bill for the follow-up. After reading posts in this forum, we gave up isolated wrist snaps a few months ago, however she still does several drills such as the one mentioned above not using her whole body. I think you said you are a big fan of drills such as the "K" drill that involve the whole body. One of the problems is my DD sees a PC who incorporates drills into her lessons that promote isolated movement drills before moving on to the full windmill motion. Not sure how to tell PC my concerns without being labeled a controlling, "crazy daddy". Last year I brought up the concept of "internal rotation" and received a lukewarm reaction.

 

[crystlemc]

One of the problems is my DD sees a PC who incorporates drills into her lessons that promote isolated movement drills before moving on to the full windmill motion. Not sure how to tell PC my concerns without being labeled a controlling, "crazy daddy". Last year I brought up the concept of "internal rotation" and received a lukewarm reaction.

Have you considered, or is it even possible to maybe try a new coach? If my dd's PC reacted in that manner, I'd be a little perturbed. As Bill said, the PC should have no problem explaining exactly WHY each "drill" or movement is done. Fortunately, we don't have a PC like that. He explains everything to my dd, multiple times, in the hope that something sticks.... right Bill?...lol. He has dd do her warmups/drills before full motion. It takes a fair amount of time, but it is all done involving the whole body in the movement. So, even if it did nothing for her pitch itself, it also serves to warm up all the muscles that she will be using in her full motion. I would look for a coach who falls more in line with what you feel or may be learning is correct.