Length of stride in achieving good stretch & fire

[jbooth]

A ‘stride’ is not needed to have a sufficient ‘stretch’.

Be careful when teaching a ‘stride’ directly. All too often a hitter takes steps backward when a stride is directly taught. The only stride I wish to see is that resulting from the loading of the rear leg.

Below is a ‘no-stride’ type swing … with plenty of ‘stretch’ prior to the additional dynamic stretch associated with the launch.

Yes, and you can also see his deltoid stretch as he lifts his hands up and back. He is thinking of the cues "keep the front shoulder in", and "keep the hands back." He thinks of those two as he pushes off of the back leg. That creates the connection/stretch between hips and hands. The core muscles are stretched and the shoulder muscles are stretched. The bat is now connected to the body and will move with the body, without any need for use of arms, until later.

As noted by the green line; the hands don't move back in space, but as the two red lines show; as the hip moves forward; in order to keep the hands in the same spot in space, there needs to be a feeling of moving them back. They don't move back, but the slack is taken out of the shoulder muscles in order to keep them in the same spot, as the body moves forward.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

You'll sometimes see Cabrera going back to a no-stride approach ....

 

[jbooth]

You'll sometimes see Cabrera going back to a no-stride approach ....

Once again, watch his hands go up and in, and his shoulder muscle stretch as he pushes onto his front foot. The back hip moves forward as the hands go up. That is the separation/stretch that many people talk about on this and other sites. It's a simple move. Load the hands as you shift, whether you shift with a stride or no-stride.

Again, this is what "keep the hands back" and "keep the front shoulder in" mean, and what the cues accomplish.

The word "keep" is a misnomer, because the shoulders will turn eventually and the hands will go forward. The cue is to make sure that they turn and go forward while connected.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Once again, watch his hands go up and in, and his shoulder muscle stretch as he pushes onto his front foot. The back hip moves forward as the hands go up. That is the separation/stretch that many people talk about on this and other sites. It's a simple move. Load the hands as you shift, whether you shift with a stride or no-stride.

Again, this is what "keep the hands back" and "keep the front shoulder in" mean, and what the cues accomplish.

The word "keep" is a misnomer, because the shoulders will turn eventually and the hands will go forward. The cue is to make sure that they turn and go forward while connected.

JB ... the highlighted portion above is key to me. I'll often refer to this in simplistic terms as "hips forward as the hands load rearward". While I much prefer Fwd-by-Coiling as the hands load rearward ... it is this basic sequence that I consider essential. When I'm given a hitter lacking such a sequence, this is almost always where I'll start working with them. Until I have some semblance of such a sequence I don't wish to spend much time elsewhere .... as it is my opinion that most other aspects of the swing are learned at a quicker rate once the basic sequence is in place.

 

[jbooth]

JB ... the highlighted portion above is key to me. I'll often refer to this in simplistic terms as "hips forward as the hands load rearward". While I much prefer Fwd-by-Coiling as the hands load rearward ... it is this basic sequence that I consider essential. When I'm given a hitter lacking such a sequence, this is almost always where I'll start working with them. Until I have some semblance of such a sequence I don't wish to spend much time elsewhere .... as it is my opinion that most other aspects of the swing are learned at a quicker rate once the basic sequence is in place.

You can use whatever term you wish, as long as the student understands what the movements are, but to me "forward by coiling" is not intuitive to what needs to be done, nor is it descriptive in any way, of the moves that need to be done.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Great feedback, guys. Thanks. ... jbooth: You called it a 'simple move.' I hope that proves to be true. There are some subtleties to it that have to be taught. Looking forward to seeing this improvement in my daughter. Hope she can have it by spring.

 

[inde53546]

one of the better posts ive seen in awhile. i always meant to ask what was meant by "loading the hands" now i have a clue at least,thank you guys

 

[redhotcoach]

Jim, FFS, great advice! I have been on this thread for 15 minutes now just watching vid and reading your advice.

 

[mann]

Here is the stretch applied to a young softball player.

This young lady has played ONE year of softball. I talked her into playing on my 14u travel team last year.
The first video i filmed 6 days ago, when she was walking by the filming area. Had not swung a bat since last late june. She looked confused and said "just start swinging"? Yes warm up and swing.

[video]http://mann.smugmug.com/keyword/maddiebeforeslomo#!i=2294097709&k=wM6fwBP[/video]

2 days later, i spent 30 minutes with her, teaching "stretch", and filmed again. here is that session.

[video]http://mann.smugmug.com/keyword/maddieaftersnfslomo#!i=2294098211&k=DkWtWFw[/video]

We also worked on her long arms. I use a hitters box approach, turn the box, pivot point, push to extension.

This pivot can be explained as the release point, or release the wrists, or hammer time, but the bat pivits and the barrel, turns inself to extension.

Fore the first time, i use the teaching point of "turn the barrel". Then i asked what she comprehended the most, she said, turning the barrel. HhhMMM.

You can see she pivots, but does not extend, and keeps her arms flexed rather than extending. Jeese, you would think after playing for so long she would be perfect by now.
Thank you for all your help, happy and healthy holidays.

 

[Quasimodo]

Been working on my daughter's strech-and-fire/walk-away-from hands technique on the good advice of a couple of the best hitting minds on this board.

Does the following make sense:

My daughter has perhaps a wider-than-normal stance, not much stride. In trying to get her to get separation between hands and front hip in the stride (aka stretch, walk-away-from-hands), she wasn't getting any conspicuous stretch. She claimed she was and argued with me about it, but I think video evidence would support me on that.

OK, so I tinkered and had her narrow the stance and take a longer stride - from maybe 2-3 inches to 10-12 inches. Now, I see stretch ... hands and hips separate.

I realize that you can achieve stretch from no stride, but in DD's case, the stride seems to help her 'get it.'

Any thoughts on this, or the art of teaching a player to walk away from hands?

If she feels comfortable in a wider stance, why can't you teach her to do a "knee-knock" load, or a "toe-touch" load, bringing her front knee back toward the back knee, and then striding to near the same point as she normally does? You get the best of both worlds. She can do either even from an open stance. The load position forces a stride, and the hands can separate, or walk away. Just remember to keep her back knee inside her back foot. Please forgive my beautiful mechanics, but I am 69 years old.