Leaping? Or replanting?

[Hillhouse]

To be clear it is not sling shot, but a full standing windmill. I should probably have said upper body.
I cannot remember exactly where it was from but 90% sure it was from a very prominent pitching coach that the gain was about 10 mph difference. I just took 10 mph off 65. and figured the %.
I can say it works for DD.
I also did not mean to diminish leg drive. I just believe there becomes an arm limitation no matter what the legs/feet are allowed to do.

OOOOH, ok. That does change things a little, but I still think 85 is high. Sorry about my confusion. Maybe I didn't read it clearly. That said, I'm still trying to understand why someone would do a full windmill without using the legs. What's the point?

And to be fair and not misquote him, I should probably recheck what Rick Pauly said. I know I disagreed with the statement but, I can't recall what he said.

 

[RADcatcher]

I'm still trying to understand why someone would do a full windmill without using the legs. What's the point?

Not pitching in a game like that right?
??as a hip/torso/rotational drill??
There are those who do that overhand as well.

 

[Hillhouse]

Not pitching in a game like that right?
??as a hip/torso/rotational drill??
There are those who do that overhand as well.

I would guess this is a drill of somekind and for some specific reason. Personally, I want my students to always use the legs. I can't think of a situation where I would ever do this personally or with my students but, I'm always up for learning something new.

 

[Dabears17]

OOOOH, ok. That does change things a little, but I still think 85 is high. Sorry about my confusion. Maybe I didn't read it clearly. That said, I'm still trying to understand why someone would do a full windmill without using the legs. What's the point?

And to be fair and not misquote him, I should probably recheck what Rick Pauly said. I know I disagreed with the statement but, I can't recall what he said.

I could be wrong, but I think Rick was trying to emphasize the importance of proper arm circle and made the observation that if you did that properly you could get 80 to 85 pct results, then optimize the leg drive. This is before allowing starting with a foot back, which adds a couple miles an hour. I think Rick was trying to say what Rich Balswick is saying in this video.




or what Javasource covers in this video:





I remember you discussing similar things in one of your videos.

 

[Kraedad]

OOOOH, ok. That does change things a little, but I still think 85 is high. Sorry about my confusion. Maybe I didn't read it clearly. That said, I'm still trying to understand why someone would do a full windmill without using the legs. What's the point?

And to be fair and not misquote him, I should probably recheck what Rick Pauly said. I know I disagreed with the statement but, I can't recall what he said.

For us there is a step and full arm swing through the circle. It is generally used for warming up and to work on whip, posture, FSR, toe to heel etc.). Its one step in the process 3/4's of the way through the progression to a full pitch. For instance, we wouldn't start learning the rise ball at full motion, maybe not even at 9 O'clock. Eventually we'd progress to 12 O'clock then to the 3/4 motion finally full motion. Our experience is that the speed generated from 3/4 motion and a "step" is 10-15% slower than cruising full motion speed. I also believe a lot factors into this: whip, lag, posture and front side. I would guess if an athlete generates speed by muscling and pushing the ball they may not have the same results stepping and throwing underhand. Every athlete is different. I know my DD can also benefit from improved drive, but its last on our list if we have bad posture, stability or whip. If leaping leads to improved measurable out comes, we'd definitely be taking a look. The reason I jumped in this thread is to see if anyone had any outcomes they could share about that method so far.

 

[Hillhouse]

I could be wrong, but I think Rick was trying to emphasize the importance of proper arm circle and made the observation that if you did that properly you could get 80 to 85 pct results, then optimize the leg drive. This is before allowing starting with a foot back, which adds a couple miles an hour. I think Rick was trying to say what Rich Balswick is saying in this video.




or what Javasource covers in this video:





I remember you discussing similar things in one of your videos.

For us there is a step and full arm swing through the circle. It is generally used for warming up and to work on whip, posture, FSR, toe to heel etc.).

toe to heel?

 

[Kraedad]

toe to heel?

Sorry... Landing toe to heel vs on the heel. (plant foot)

 

[ArmWhip]

I suppose there is one other way to approach this. Rather than take a radar reading from a stationary position to measure the arm contribution to the pitch speed, have the pitcher hold the ball at the release position and do a push off-leap, to measure that speed/contribution.

Funny story, many years ago when I was coaching LL I had a B&L radar gun to measure pitch speed. When the girls saw it and found out what it was for they asked me if it could measure their running speed. I was sceptical, but they tried it and dam if it didn't work. So there they were, taking turns running at full speed down the first base line toward a girl holding the radar gun. The only thing was every now and then a very high reading would pop up, I think that it might have measured the hand as it came forward in the running motion. Now that I'm thinking about this I might have to try it again. If it works it might replace the tryout drill of timing a runner going to first base.

 

[Jeffrey]

I'm a Rick Pauly disciple & I have 11 students that I would consider my top half (ages 14U-18U) and we expect 85% from "K" position. That doesn't mean no footwork, but it no drive. It's also not a full circle.

Here are the #'s:
1. 87%
2. 92.6%
3. 92.6%
4. 88.7%
5. 88%
6. 91.3%
7. 84.6%
8. 87.5%
9. 89.6%
10. 90.6%
11. 86.5%

I use a smart coach on a tripod so it's in whole MPH (not decimal) so there's probably a 2% margin of error on average. We do a progressive warm-up and these benchmarks help us gauge effort, discover injury/soreness, and where inefficiencies begin since as we progress back more elements to the pitching motion are added. When the speeds don't make sense we look for the breakdowns in mechanics. If the speeds make sense then we know we can add strength, etc. while trusting the mechanics.

 

[Kraedad]

I'm a Rick Pauly disciple & I have 11 students that I would consider my top half (ages 14U-18U) and we expect 85% from "K" position. That doesn't mean no footwork, but it no drive. It's also not a full circle.

Here are the #'s:
1. 87%
2. 92.6%
3. 92.6%
4. 88.7%
5. 88%
6. 91.3%
7. 84.6%
8. 87.5%
9. 89.6%
10. 90.6%
11. 86.5%

I use a smart coach on a tripod so it's in whole MPH (not decimal) so there's probably a 2% margin of error on average. We do a progressive warm-up and these benchmarks help us gauge effort, discover injury/soreness, and where inefficiencies begin since as we progress back more elements to the pitching motion are added. When the speeds don't make sense we look for the breakdowns in mechanics. If the speeds make sense then we know we can add strength, etc. while trusting the mechanics.

Fascinating results from the K position.