Leaping? Or replanting?

[The Man In Blue]

Fascinating. I never knew women were more prone to these kinds of injuries.

Do a lot of female basketball, volleyball players have this problem with the ACL, there's certainly a lot of jumping in those games.

I won't pretend to be a doctor, to have played one on TV, or to have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night . . . It isn't so much the jumping (though that is stressful on the body), it is the running and quickly stopping or changing direction. Think about the motions players make in basketball, volleyball, and soccer. Get to the ball (or a spot), stop abruptly, change direction sharply and quickly.

Now think about softball. The running is much more linear with slower decelerations. Base runners aren't stopping and turning on a dime, they are running in arcs and rounded patterns. Fielders are typically running through fielding or throwing.

Not saying it doesn't happen in softball, but to a lesser degree than the other sports (I believe). Now, add in the findings that females are more prone to these injuries . . .

 

[Vertigo]

Descriptive Epidemiology of Collegiate Women's Softball Injuries: National Collegiate Athletic Association Injury Surveillance System, 1988–1989 Through 2003–2004

Objective: To review 16 years of National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) injury surveillance data for women's softball and to identify potential areas for injury prevention initiatives. Background: The NCAA Injury Surveillance ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Probably a lesser degree due to mechanism of action but knees and ankles (ligament injuries) seem to be the most common.

ETA: With new pitching rules and motions time will only tell. Could only take one awkward landing on a crappy field…

 

[Vertigo]

The only problem is we probably won’t hear about these injuries unless it’s a high profile player in college. You won’t hear about the middle school players or HS players who sustain the same type of injury.

ETA: Just to add - I’m not specifically talking about ACL injuries - I’m more referring to any type of ligament injury. ACL was discussed as it was what Jordy Bahl injured. The meniscus is another one that is pretty common, as well as ankle ligaments. We also have to keep in mind that the same principle applies to tendons in women vs men.

 

[ZZjavelinthrower]

Perhaps this topic was already covered, but if anyone has a pitcher playing 16 or 18U, there is a greater looming problem that is soon to rear its ugly head. The condition of the mounds.

As if the 2 inch high portable mounds salvaged from left over turf, gently shaped with a chain saw and shaved at the back of the rubber weren’t enough, the sprint style pitchers are literally leaving 12 inch deep clay chasms at every tournament, which the grounds crews do not seem to care about.

Most of the high level pitchers, with their 350 game high school and travel schedules, spread out over twelve months with a day off for Christmas, are already struggling to stay healthy.

Now add a 8 foot leap while trying to traverse the kitty litter turf and Golly, I wonder when the ACL, Achilles, and Femoral Head injuries are going to start piling up, even on a good groomer.

Additionally. The way the current rule is written, the obvious response is that you cannot have a push absent hip extension. It doesn’t mean a pitcher with a steep Q Angle, a weak Quadratus Lumborum, Illitibial Band or Vastus Medialis is going to survive the onslaught of ground force, particularly in cheaply made shoes that do not protect the pitcher against loose clay and no lateral support.

 

[ArmWhip]

My take on the landing that a pitcher makes when replanting is that the ground impact on the front leg will be less because the force is redirected. When I look at some of the male pitchers with a giant leap, and imagine them landing on the front leg without a replant, I cringe. Another way to look at it is that when a pitcher crow hops/replants the touchdown is essentially a two foot landing with the back foot touching down first. Go to 23:00 of this video for a good look at the mechanics of this. There is also some instruction on the hesitation that replanting requires, to me this lowers the contribution that the arm circle makes. Serious crow hopping turns a pitcher into a sling shotter.

 

[tomorrow]

My take on the landing that a pitcher makes when replanting is that the ground impact on the front leg will be less because the force is redirected. When I look at some of the male pitchers with a giant leap, and imagine them landing on the front leg without a replant, I cringe. Another way to look at it is that when a pitcher crow hops/replants the touchdown is essentially a two foot landing with the back foot touching down first. Go to 23:00 of this video for a good look at the mechanics of this. There is also some instruction on the hesitation that replanting requires, to me this lowers the contribution that the arm circle makes. Serious crow hopping turns a pitcher into a sling shotter.

As an aside, I am not sure I have seen a coach promote staying closed as much as he does in this video.

 

[Tango]

Will leaping impact base stealing?

 

[ArmWhip]

As an aside, I am not sure I have seen a coach promote staying closed as much as he does in this video.

I think that that is tied in with the hesitation and also what makes me feel that it is more like sling shot.

 

[Hillhouse]

My take on the landing that a pitcher makes when replanting is that the ground impact on the front leg will be less because the force is redirected. When I look at some of the male pitchers with a giant leap, and imagine them landing on the front leg without a replant, I cringe. Another way to look at it is that when a pitcher crow hops/replants the touchdown is essentially a two foot landing with the back foot touching down first. Go to 23:00 of this video for a good look at the mechanics of this. There is also some instruction on the hesitation that replanting requires, to me this lowers the contribution that the arm circle makes. Serious crow hopping turns a pitcher into a sling shotter.

This guy is an international hall of fame pitcher with some records in the World tournament that may never be broken. I don't think he really does a lot of "instructing" but, he is the USA Men's program "pitching coach". He's got 3-4 videos on YouTube. In the videos he reverses the names of a pitcher being "open" or closed. For example, he calls someone being sideways "closed". I'd call that open.

The part I found somewhat amusing, I don't know if it was on this particular video that Armwhip posted or another but, he seemed to be actively teaching the pitchers to jump and crow hop. Similar to the guy in California who's doing it with girls. Nobody ever taught me to jump and crow hop, I figured it out by just imitating other pitchers. But I wonder what the rationale is for actively teaching it.

 

[Hillhouse]

Will leaping impact base stealing?

No, it shouldn't. Runner still has to wait for the ball to leave the pitcher's hands.

In an effort to curb pitchers crow hopping, there was a season in the early 2000's where an experiment was tried allowing the runners to leave as soon as the pitcher started the forward motion. This meant the runner would be 3-4 steps towards 2nd by the time the guy jumped, landed, and threw the ball. Basically, anyone on base was almost guaranteed to get to 2nd easily. Not many runners were thrown out!!!! But, that went away pretty fast due to the absurdity of how many runners were able to steal.