Is crow hopping now legal

[erniekru]

Illegal, but never ever going to get called. Who cares, it's still a ball flying through the air that needs to go on a ride!

DD's HS hosted a double header against the Czech Nat 18u team this fall. Their pitcher abided by international rules and looked exactly like the video above.. The motion looks crazy the first time you see it, however, it made no difference to the hitters (maybe first time thru the order was a little different)

 

[JOHNN]

This seems like a good spot to see what people think about the snip in the youtube link above that was from a HS game earlier this month - legal or not under any rules body (NCAA, NFHS, PGF, USA, etc)

Thanks

Forgive my lack of understanding here, but for those saying this is a crow hop, Im not understanding why. I could see it being a crow hop if her front foot landed then went even further out again but it doesnt. Unless the crow hop I did in the outfield is much different than the pitching crow hop, I dont see how this is any different than a leap where the foot comes off the ground.

Also, in case someone mentions about the back knee facing 2B, you can easily do that while dragging your back foot. If a pitcher were to do this while dragging her back toe, would she need to smooth out the dirt after every pitch if thats what some use an indicator?

 

[Tazman]

Forgive my lack of understanding here, but for those saying this is a crow hop, Im not understanding why. I could see it being a crow hop if her front foot landed then went even further out again but it doesnt. Unless the crow hop I did in the outfield is much different than the pitching crow hop, I dont see how this is any different than a leap where the foot comes off the ground.

Also, in case someone mentions about the back knee facing 2B, you can easily do that while dragging your back foot. If a pitcher were to do this while dragging her back toe, would she need to smooth out the dirt after every pitch if thats what some use an indicator?

The front foot lands further forward than it would have without the replant of the push foot. Even if it didn't, the force applied to the front foot is greater than without the crow hop because the rear foot both acts as a fulcrum and provides additional momentum toward creating front side resistance and hence whip.

 

[tomorrow]

The front foot lands further forward than it would have without the replant of the push foot. Even if it didn't, the force applied to the front foot is greater than without the crow hop because the rear foot both acts as a fulcrum and provides additional momentum toward creating front side resistance and hence whip.

Hmm, let me think about this. At 1st thought, if the rear foot is a fulcrum it could impart more downward momentum by the body rotating toward the earth.

 

[RADcatcher]

The front foot lands further forward than it would have without the replant of the push foot.

...

I could see it being a crow hop if her front foot landed then went even further out again but it doesnt.

In that video the front foot lands where it lands and stays there. The rest of the body is finishing its momentum.

 

[RADcatcher]

Lots to consider with the direction of energy the body is producing Torso, legs, hips, shoulders, body angle... up, down, or forward matters.

Think it's achievable for a pitcher to gain the same amount of velocity
(even distance off the rubber)
with a legal drag or leap that someone might think is only obtainable with a Crow Hop.
Some see gained ground and think it must be a second push. But doesn't have to be.


Also think these variances in body trajectory are different for different bodies. Flexibility and strength play a role.

 

[ArmWhip]

If you go to the settings tab on YouTube and slow the replay speed down all the way it lets you get a good look at exact sequence of the landing. After the back foot plants the front foot moves mostly downward, maybe it moves forward for an inch, not much of a gain there. This 'mini' replant is not comparable to what the men's fastpitch pitchers do. Taking a pitcher who was legal, with a drag, and is now legal without a drag, and changing her mechanics to include a replant is a significant rebuild. The arm circle timing has to be recalibrated.

 

[RADcatcher]

If you go to the settings tab on YouTube and slow the replay speed down all the way it lets you get a good look at exact sequence of the landing. After the back foot plants the front foot moves mostly downward, maybe it moves forward for an inch, not much of a gain there.

That would be similar to a batter who takes their initial step with their front foot and it lands and then as their backside rotates into their swing their front foot gets pushed an inch or so.
( does not mean there is an additional step happening)

This 'mini' replant is not comparable to what the men's fastpitch pitchers do.

Don't know I would call it a replant because it is just a resistance of force moment. That also happens when pitchers drag. The drive & rotation of their body can still create Force.
( like the hitting example)

Taking a pitcher who was legal, with a drag, and is now legal without a drag, and changing her mechanics to include a replant is a significant rebuild. The arm circle timing has to be recalibrated.

This right here is a super critical comment thanks for adding it!
Need to look at more than feet when analyzing pitching mechanics. Definite difference when a pitcher is carrying the ball forward without separating their hands yet... and starting their arm pitch rotation.

 

[JOHNN]

In that video the front foot lands where it lands and stays there. The rest of the body is finishing its momentum.

I could be wrong, but it seems that this should the critical part here. If the front foot goes even further after landing then obviously its a crow hop. If it doesnt, then it wouldnt be a true crow hop.

 

[Tazman]

I could be wrong, but it seems that this should the critical part here. If the front foot goes even further after landing then obviously its a crow hop. If it doesnt, then it wouldnt be a true crow hop.

Love the brainstorm. My thought is that even if the foot doesn't land further forward, additional momentum can be imparted from the replant from the forward or downward momentum it imparts that can translate into whip. I think about my daughter pitchers and if the replant was legal there is no way they wouldn't adopt it. Similarly it seems that it is used everywhere it's legal and not required. Jordy bahl was doing it until called and I suspect learned it from someone that knows a bit about whether it's advantageous or not. Back to the direct topic, it's far from the most egregious example out there but it is illegal and it's illegal because it's advantageous.