International Tie-breaker; how do you coach it?

[radness]

Back Pick

 

[Nimrod]

Most likely, yes. A lead is a lead. The pressure to execute when behind is substantial. May depend on who is coming up; but not having a lead going into the bottom half of the inning is a recipe for losing a vast majority of the time.

Good points. I'd be more willing to swing away in a high-scoring game, figuring that I'm probably going to score anyway, so why sacrifice, but the pressure of a final-inning scenario is certainly worth considering. If you're true to that philosophy, then you might also apply it in the top of the 7th of a high-scoring tie game if your leadoff hitter doubles.

 

[Quasimodo]

Offense:
Vistors: Get your run in by sac bunting them across to third + one of squeeze, GB to right side/sac fly/hit, try to manufacture a second run once you get your run in.

Defense ONLY:
As HOME team, get the first batter out; you HAVE to get the out. Defending runner on 3rd with 1 out can be workable. You CANNOT give up more than the one run. If you try to get the lead runner you better get them; it is a highly risky move since they are not forced.

As VISITORS; it depends whether I got 1 run across or more than 1. If I got 1, then it is the same. Get the first runner out, try to defend 1 out, runner on third. If I got two, I can play it more straight because they runner on 2 isn't the winning run.

If the winning run gets to third or even second, then establish forces at the next base by intentionally walking batters UNLESS you have an easy out coming up or it turns the order over to their best batters. I am not loading the bases for the player who is already 4-4.

If we messed up and got zero runs, then I am walking the first batter top establish the force at third, moving infields in and doing everything I can to get the lead runner at third.


HOME has a distinct disadvantage because the VISITORS should be in front when you come to bat. And if they found a way to get more than 1 run across you are screwed big time because you can't easily manufacture bringing in the runner from 2nd.



99.9% of the time it is not getting the first batter out. 1st and 3rd with no outs is a bad time. As HOME team you have to be OK with the run scoring because you will have the same opportunity at your at bat to execurte and manufacture the run.

I am not trying to guide anyone's opinion yet, but I think the numbers are so close, that strategic orthodoxy may have no place in baseball in the ITB. A great hitter, or a hitter who can push pitches toward RF, might preclude a sacrifice bunt. But at the same time, how does a fast slapper affect that choice? The other factor is that MLB players are LOUSY bunters. There are few who exhibit even a modicum of reasonable bunting mechanics. But then again, when you get paid $20 million a year why should you know how to execute or expand your skills?

What I would say is, IMHO, baseball perspectives should be somewhat thrown out! Focus on softball. And focus perhaps on your future, or current environment, thinking of High School and above. It will be there soon enough.

 

[Quasimodo]

Good points. I'd be more willing to swing away in a high-scoring game, figuring that I'm probably going to score anyway, so why sacrifice, but the pressure of a final-inning scenario is certainly worth considering. If you're true to that philosophy, then you might also apply it in the top of the 7th of a high-scoring tie game if your leadoff hitter doubles.

I agree in a high scoring game, but what happens in that 1-1 or 2-2 games I was referring too. Everything changes doesn't it?

 

[Quasimodo]

Back Pick

Pay close attention to the end RADcatcher, because I will be talking about this in a big way. A nice time for a pitch-out back-pick!

 

[radness]

Its a great topic BIG Q !

Interesting how some coaches opt to change their strategy in itb and others plug along not changing strategy.

I like strategy, that said
find i cannot offer a one off answer to this itb question without seeing all the players.

Can share played many years without itb rule.
Where pitchers ruled.
Games common to play into double digits, even 20+ innings.
There werent as many base runners.
Playing defense with one runner on was easily as critical as itb.

Perhaps playing with that mindset i play every inning to not let the other team score.
EVER!

 

[Quasimodo]

Its a great topic BIG Q !

Interesting how some coaches opt to change their strategy in itb and others plug along not changing strategy.

I like strategy, that said
find i cannot offer a one off answer to this itb question without seeing all the players.

Can share played many years without itb rule.
Where pitchers ruled.
Games common to play into double digits, even 20+ innings.
There werent as many base runners.
Playing defense with one runner on was easily as critical as itb.

Perhaps playing with that mindset i play every inning to not let the other team score.
EVER!

Just for posterities sake, just a little walk down memory lane!


1981 FIRST TEAM ALL AMERICANS

P – Barbara Reinalda, Raybestos Brakettes
P – Kathy Arendsen, Raybestos Brakettes
P – Lou Piel, Orlando Rebels
C – Marilyn Rau, Sun City Saints
C – Starleen Orullian, Utah Bees
1B – Lisa Clinchy, Sun City Saints
2B – Patty Pyle, Orlando Rebels
3B – Sue Kragseth, Shimers
SS – Dot Richardson, Orlando Rebels
OF – Denette Stottlemyre, Hamilton Bears
OF – Sue Enquist, Raybestos Brakettes
OF – Patty Cutright, Macomb Magic
OF – Barbara Garcia, Sun City Saints
UTIL – Mary Owen, Shimers

1981 SECOND TEAM ALL AMERICANS

P – Debbie Doom, Sun City Saints
P – Vickie Swanson, Raybestos Brakettes
P – Lori Stoll, Hamilton Bears
C – Doreen Denmon, Raybestos Brakettes
C – Val Strachan, Shimers
1B – Gail Scott, Macomb Magic
2B – Allyson Rioux, Raybestos Brakettes
3B – Marty Grzanich, Macomb Magic
SS – Wendy Hedberg, Macomb Magic
OF – Sue Lewis, Long Beach Renegades
OF – Melonie Kent, Utah Bees
OF – Snookie Mulder, Orlando Rebels
OF – Pat Stoffel, Macomb Magic
UTIL – Missy Mapes, Raybestos Brakettes

I remember about 85% of these women, and certainly I remember these two. I am 70 years old now, and the memories and the names ring a sweet bell. And yes, there were many games where the starter pitched a 0-0 or 1-1 game for 16 innings.

No one, particularly Miss Arendsen, claims that she is another Joan Joyce, even though she is generally regarded as the top women's softball pitcher in the country. But even her manager, Ralph Raymond, who was at the Brakettes helm during Miss Joyce's last six years with the club, said he thought Miss Arendsen might yet rival her pitching ability. ''I don't like to compare them, because they're different individuals with different styles,'' said Mr. Raymond, who has managed the Brakettes for 14 years. ''But I would like to think that Kathy has not yet reached her peak, and may not do so for another year or two.''

Going into the national championships, which begin tonight in Houston, where the Brakettes will be seeking their 17th national title, Miss Arendsen has won 31 games without a defeat. She has given up only one run, against a team from Toronto on July 5, in 229 innings. During that stretch, Miss Arendsen struck out 466 batters, walked only 22, pitched 12 no-hit games, including two perfect games, hurled 29 shutouts and posted a 0.03 earned-run average.



FINAL STANDINGS

 

[CoachJD]

The logic in baseball seems to be to find a way to justify not bunting...

I have seen:
-they never bunt, so they are not good at bunting
- bases are 90' so harder to sac when everyone is ready
- it goes against their normal batting, so execution is harder
- a sac fly is as good as a bunt and I might get a hit so lets do that
- 'it isn't real baseball so I am going to be all grumpy about that'

But in the end, it is 'it isn't macho to bunt'

Nah. The actual logic is a lot simpler: The sacrifice bunt is a bad play for the offense if your goal is to score as many runs as possible, while it's an occasionally good play for the offense if your goal is to score exactly one run.

The actual mental gymnastics come from people who have to justify why teams should bunt despite it being an objectively bad baseball thing to do (most of the time).

EDIT: None of what I just said necessarily means it's bad in softball, since the games are not the same, and what I said definitely does not necessarily apply to lower levels, where a "sac bunt" is just as likely to turn into a defensive disaster where everybody scores as it is an out for the defense.

 

[Quasimodo]

Coaches, I have never heard anyone here on this forum recommend a softball bat based on their experience with a baseball bat! If the game is not the same, and it is not, then why bring it up? Think softball please. And yeah, it may be out of your experience pool but it is a good exercise.

 

[corlay]

Ive seen effective strategy, in some cases, to *fake bunt* the first pitch,
and if that first pitch is a ball, fake bunt the second pitch also... then swing away for the remainder of the at-bat.