Umpire incorrectly calls 3 outs in an inning

[going2]

This happened in my granddaughter's 14U travel ball game.

The actual situation was 1 out and a runner on first. I don't know the exact inning but it was before the 7th and within the game time limits. The batter hits ground ball to SS who throws to first for the out. The base runner moves to second. The umpire yells, "Three Outs!" The defensive team starts to run off the field. The runner on second realizes there are only 2 outs and breaks for third where she is "safe". The batting team coaches come out of the dugout to challenge that the half-inning is not over. After several minutes of relatively calm discussion, the umpire acknowledges the mistake, and has the defensive team go back on the field. Then sends the runner on third back to second.

Is that the correct resolution? Is the base runner penalized for knowing the real situation?

 

[Orange Socks]

My best bet. Dead ball once the umpire declares end of inning. Runners cannot advance. Umpire making it right.

 

[Strike2]

I have never, ever heard an umpire call out the number of outs at any point during a ballgame.

 

[EdLovrich]

My best bet. Dead ball once the umpire declares end of inning. Runners cannot advance. Umpire making it right.

the ball does not become dead from calling a third out. While the umpire DID put a team at a disadvantage by stating the (incorrect) number of outs, which he should not have done, unless asked how many outs there were, I cannot see how you penalize the offense for knowing the situation correctly.

14U---not sure how I would handle this if I were to somehow create this goat rope through my own improper mechanics. But, I would say it was not handled properly.

 

[The Man In Blue]

the ball does not become dead from calling a third out. While the umpire DID put a team at a disadvantage by stating the (incorrect) number of outs, which he should not have done, unless asked how many outs there were, I cannot see how you penalize the offense for knowing the situation correctly.

14U---not sure how I would handle this if I were to somehow create this goat rope through my own improper mechanics. But, I would say it was not handled properly.

Fully agree on the "dead ball" distinction. However, look at it from both sides though ... if you leave the runner at third, you penalized the defense for following your "instruction" instead.

I don't like it, but I think putting the runner back was the right thing to do. She would not have advanced had the umpire not erred. The umpire did err though, so we must rectify it.

USSSA 14.12(R) " ... The duties of the Plate Umpire shall include the following: ... Rectify any situation in which an Umpire’s decision that was delayed or reversed has placed either team in jeopardy."

NFHS 10-2-3m " ... The duties include those listed in 10-2-1 and also the following: ...
rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy."

Now, had the defense just run off the field because THEY thought it was three outs and the umpires and the offense were wondering what they were doing (have had that MANY times) ... no, I didn't make the mistake so the runner stays.

 

[EdLovrich]

Fully agree on the "dead ball" distinction. However, look at it from both sides though ... if you leave the runner at third, you penalized the defense for following your "instruction" instead.

I don't like it, but I think putting the runner back was the right thing to do. She would not have advanced had the umpire not erred. The umpire did err though, so we must rectify it.

USSSA 14.12(R) " ... The duties of the Plate Umpire shall include the following: ... Rectify any situation in which an Umpire’s decision that was delayed or reversed has placed either team in jeopardy."

NFHS 10-2-3m " ... The duties include those listed in 10-2-1 and also the following: ...
rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy."

Now, had the defense just run off the field because THEY thought it was three outs and the umpires and the offense were wondering what they were doing (have had that MANY times) ... no, I didn't make the mistake so the runner stays.

I spent a lot of time trying to decide this one. A lot of it had to do with the level of ball. !2U and lower, I 100% agree that we move the runner back. !6U, HS, and above, no, the defense needs to be accountable for knowing the game situation. The rules you cited, both refer to an umpires decision, there was no decision in this case, but rather an error of fact.

How many times have you rung up a batter on strike 2? If a runner steps off to head to the dugout because they assumed their teammate was out and gets thrown out, are you going to put her back on base due to your mistake?

Or, if there is an IFF situation and the umpires fail to call it while the ball is in flight. If the ball falls and the runners presume they now have to try to advance are you going to put them back on their original basses if either or both get thrown out? No, they are responsible for knowing the situation and that they do NOT have to run on the dropped ball.

Now, if I call a runner out due to being 'forced out' (and there was no force in effect) and they leave the base, only to now be tagged. I would need to put them back, my decision put them in jeopardy.

Or, let's turn the OP around, umpire calls "Out, that's three!" (again, nothing that should ever be said by any umpire at any time.), and the runner steps off second to head to the dugout (oh, let's make it really interesting and say it is the 3rd Base dugout) and is tagged out. The runner could (and should) have remained where she was until she gets clarification on the number of outs, if she had thought it was only 2. It was not a decision that was reversed or in error, that put her in jeopardy. The facts of the game never changed, there were two outs.

Very tough situation for an umpire to be in due to their own actions.

 

[marriard]

Very tough situation for an umpire to be in due to their own actions.

First let me say I would never make this particular mistake, but I am sure there is some other similar dumb thing I might do at some point which would have similar consequences. Hasn't happened recently, but it has happened...

This is why I am going to dead ball it at the time I did something stupid and use my judgement to place runners basically where they should be if the play had continued with out my action.

No one gets any additional advantage that happens after my action. Heads up by the runner but that is irrelevant. The reality is that my actions caused the defenders to not be there which made that opportunity. BTW, if the defenders recovered and then got an out - that would have to not count either. Ball is dead.

And then as an official you have to eat your mistake and deal with the fallout, learn from the mistake and move on...

 

[canyonjoe]

Runner is being penalized for knowing the situation. It's a situation caused by an umpire mistake and thus should be rectified so no on is hurt.

 

[EdLovrich]

Runner is being penalized for knowing the situation. It's a situation caused by an umpire mistake and thus should be rectified so no on is hurt.

This is the heart of the conundrum. Once the umpire has to fix his mistake, someone is going to get hurt. If you put the runner back, you are penalizing despite her knowing the situation (granted, the chances she advances if you hadn't said 'Three outs' are miniscule) OR you penalize the defense for not being aware of the situation or at least for believing what you said in error.

as an official you have to eat your mistake and deal with the fallout, learn from the mistake and move on...

This is the crux of this or any similar situation. We (umpires) all want to be perfect, we say we are human and will make mistakes; but that being said, sometimes we have to open our mouths wide enough to fit a whole plate shoe in. Yummmmmm, humble pie

 

[The Man In Blue]

I spent a lot of time trying to decide this one. A lot of it had to do with the level of ball. !2U and lower, I 100% agree that we move the runner back. !6U, HS, and above, no, the defense needs to be accountable for knowing the game situation. The rules you cited, both refer to an umpires decision, there was no decision in this case, but rather an error of fact.

How many times have you rung up a batter on strike 2? If a runner steps off to head to the dugout because they assumed their teammate was out and gets thrown out, are you going to put her back on base due to your mistake?

Or, if there is an IFF situation and the umpires fail to call it while the ball is in flight. If the ball falls and the runners presume they now have to try to advance are you going to put them back on their original basses if either or both get thrown out? No, they are responsible for knowing the situation and that they do NOT have to run on the dropped ball.

Now, if I call a runner out due to being 'forced out' (and there was no force in effect) and they leave the base, only to now be tagged. I would need to put them back, my decision put them in jeopardy.

Or, let's turn the OP around, umpire calls "Out, that's three!" (again, nothing that should ever be said by any umpire at any time.), and the runner steps off second to head to the dugout (oh, let's make it really interesting and say it is the 3rd Base dugout) and is tagged out. The runner could (and should) have remained where she was until she gets clarification on the number of outs, if she had thought it was only 2. It was not a decision that was reversed or in error, that put her in jeopardy. The facts of the game never changed, there were two outs.

Very tough situation for an umpire to be in due to their own actions.

The level of play should have nothing to do with the end result on this. The umpire decided it was out #3, he was wrong and provided an advantage to one team. Fixing that is not hurting either team, it is fixing it. It is not unfair when a team has their unfair advantage taken away.

Erroneous Strike Three ... yes, I have done it a handful of times. The end result has usually been laughter -- (particularly when I told one catcher in an 18+ baseball game, "Damn, that was my sexiest strike three call ever, too.") I've never had it happen, but if the end result was R1 walked off the base because I "rang up the batter" on strike 3 for out #3, then no, I am not letting the catcher back-pick the runner for a cheap out.

IFF ... Most (if not all) rule books are clear that IFF is applied by the situation, not the umpire's call. No, nobody should be fixing anything on an IFF situation other than potentially retroactively calling the batter out (which is supported by rule).

Erroneous force out ... agreed, do not allow the runner to be tagged out if they left the base because of your call. Just like the defense leaving the field because of the call in the OP.

Turnaround play ... I agree an umpire should not declare "That's three!" But should it happen, my thoughts are the same in your turn around play. If the umpire told the runner that was the third out, then the umpire is at fault. It is not on the player to wait and make sure the umpire is serious, not senile, playing a practical joke, confused, or any other thing.