In a mood, I can't take it anymore... and it started with backdoor curve.

[riseball]

Fastest way to get on the bad side of an umpire, tell them before the game has even started what they need to be watching for. NOT a good idea.

Who advocated that?

 

[Comp]

The original post.

At the beginning of the game to say to the ump during warm ups... stay close, we stay on corners. The catcher can also tap the umpire's foot when throwing a tricky pitch like a low rise which is known to fool a lot of umpires who think it's going to drop out of the zone when it stays (or comes up) into the bottom of the zone.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Fastest way to get on the bad side of an umpire, tell them before the game has even started what they need to be watching for. NOT a good idea.

Having worked as an umpire, I was never persuaded by such pre-game shenanigans as having the catcher telling me during "warm ups" to "stay close, we stay on corners".

If it made the catcher believe they gained an edge for their pitcher, then fine ... but it did nothing to persuade me one way or the other. I know some umpires would feel a bit insulted, and if anything, would lean the other way.

Umpires aren't at the games to make friends. They fully expect that during the course of the game, that virtually everyone present may end up not liking them. It comes with the job.

 

[JJsqueeze]

A natural crop is indicative of a late release I/R at best. A cut fastball is indicative of catching the whip. So you really cannot equate the two. One indicates a mechanical flaw and one is a sign of good mechanics and timing. Besides, the drop on a ball decreases significantly as the seams deviate from straight 12-6 to anything offline. The last tidbit is that squaring up a drop is one of the easiest things to do in pitching so why not perfect it?

So FFS. To answer your question, no they are not equal and yes you should work to square up the drop and not just accept the flaw.

 

[Comp]

Having worked as an umpire, I was never persuaded by such pre-game shenanigans as having the catcher telling me during "warm ups" to "stay close, we stay on corners".

If it made the catcher believe they gained an edge for their pitcher, then fine ... but it did nothing to persuade me one way or the other. I know some umpires would feel a bit insulted, and if anything, would lean the other way.

Umpires aren't at the games to make friends. They fully expect that during the course of the game, that virtually everyone present may end up not liking them. It comes with the job.

It would not affect my judgement in the slightest either, the strike zone is the strike zone. But, even you have admitted that it would negatively affect some umpires and may actually make them tighten the zone. Why would you say anything to the umpire before the game has even started that could have an effect on their judgment?

It is the exact same reason umpires should NEVER start issuing warnings and negative comments about anything in the pregame meeting. It immediately puts the coaches on the defensive and sets a bad tone for the game. Why in the world would a coach want to risk putting off the umpire before the game has even started?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

JJs, do you believe the curve-drop that Mike White and Rick Pauly teach are flaws?

If a developing pitcher could throw such a pitch more naturally than they could throw a drop without horizontal movement, would you as the instructor remove the horizontal movement from such a pitch?

 

[Rocketech1]

So FFS. To answer your question, no they are not equal and yes you should work to square up the drop and not just accept the flaw.

And yet pitchers such as Keilani Ricketts won a WCWS title and play NPF primarily from throwing a very effective Crop. I wonder if she would have been a better or worse pitcher had she abandoned the crop and focused on the drop exclusively?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

And yet pitchers such as Keilani Ricketts won a WCWS title and play NPF primarily from throwing a very effective Crop. I wonder if she would have been a better or worse pitcher had she abandoned the crop and focused on the drop exclusively?

Yes ... and despite that there seems to be a following that believe the ... "Crop" is a load of crap.

I still recall the UCLA screwball pitcher (Meg Langenfeld) having a fantastic year ... even went on to play for team USA. Despite the tone in this thread ... a screwball can be an effective pitch.

 

[Westwind]

It's time for the bi-annual banning.

 

[JJsqueeze]

And yet pitchers such as Keilani Ricketts won a WCWS title and play NPF primarily from throwing a very effective Crop. I wonder if she would have been a better or worse pitcher had she abandoned the crop and focused on the drop exclusively?

she was dominant in college because of speed. She is the fourth best pitcher on her NPF team because she does not have a rise. Crop/drop/mop....throw it 70+ and you will do great in college.

Compare her to Gasciogne in their college/NPF careers and it tells an interesting story. And who trained Gasciogne? A rise/drop/change advocate.