If a ChangeUp is the second pitch every budding young pitcher learns...

[_MIA_]

A reasonable theory: the ChangeUp serves as a 'placeholder" pitch, until more "effective" (debatable) pitches can be taught.

But there are some holes:
1. A true, backspinning riseball can be effective at as little as 50mph, with sufficient revs (25-30rps).
2. Likewise, a Dropball, at even 45mph with sufficient 12-6 revs (~15-18rps) will "move".

A curve is a little tougher to realize success with low mph.

But my point is: if we don't value the Change in 18U level pitching, then why not teach our young pitchers to spin the ball *properly* for a Drop and Rise at young ages?

I am a BIG proponent of the Change, but one thing that I think is lost on young pitchers is learning to SPIN the ball, and learning to spin it DIFFERENTLY for a few different pitches. We tend to focus upon mph at the expense of spin rate and/or axis. And I think that is why we see so many 1-dimensional, hard-throwing pitchers at the 18U level.

Well most 9/10 YO cannot throw 45 mph and I have no idea at what age they can spin it at those revolutions but I get your point. I am not disagreeing necessarily that there is a better way of doing things, only trying to explain why things are done as they are. Ultimately the answer may just be (outside of the effectiveness argument against a particular team) that saying somebody has a nasty riseball is sexier than saying somebody has a nasty CU...

 

[corlay]

Really depends on the pitcher and there are all kinds. If you can throw gas past every batter, there is no reason to show them a change. Why slow the ball down to let them catch up to it? Doesn't mean they don't have a CU. Just isn't a reason to throw it.

This CoachThink is prevalent - and incorrect.
A well-placed Change OUTSIDE of the strikezone (in the dirt, usually) will produce LOTS of swings/misses for a "flamethrower".
Keeping the Change in rthe back of the Batter's minds, only makes your "gas" that much perceptually faster.
Even Ueno throws a Change....

 

[thecat]

saying somebody has a nasty riseball is sexier than saying somebody has a nasty CU...

Lol. It's sexier saying that than telling the truth and calling it a high fastball. Fastpitchology

 

[corlay]

Lol. It's sexier saying that than telling the truth and calling it a high fastball. Fastpitchology

BUT, a real Riseball IS damn sexy.
(especially ones who can throw it for a strike at the knees, in addition to at the letters...)

 

[_MIA_]

Lol. It's sexier saying that than telling the truth and calling it a high fastball. Fastpitchology

I don't disagree that one should probably treat a high rise as a high fastball in terms of how you approach it. That said while a riseball doesn't actually rise above the initial straight line trajectory (at least at the speeds/revs female fastpitch pitchers can produce) it does have a different trajectory than a fastball.

 

[corlay]

I don't disagree that one should probably treat a high rise as a high fastball in terms of how you approach it. That said while a riseball doesn't actually rise above the initial straight line trajectory it does have a different trajectory than a fastball.

you misunderstood. True riseballs are somewhat "unicorn-like".

MOST pitchers that think they "have" a riseball, are simply throwing fastballs (with some sort of "bullet" spin axis) high in the zone.

 

[_MIA_]

you misunderstood. True riseballs are somewhat "unicorn-like".

MOST pitchers that think they "have" a riseball, are simply throwing fastballs high in the zone.

Shame on me, a wiseass should be able to recognize another wiseass

 

[thecat]

I don't disagree that one should probably treat a high rise as a high fastball in terms of how you approach it. That said while a riseball doesn't actually rise above the initial straight line trajectory (at least at the speeds/revs female fastpitch pitchers can produce) it does have a different trajectory than a fastball.

What's the difference in trajectory?

 

[_MIA_]

What's the difference in trajectory?

It will have a bit more upwards force acting on it (due to the spin) counteracting gravity so it's final location will be a bit higher than a fastball (but not higher than where it would be if it just followed it's initial straight line trajectory..)

 

[thecat]

It will have a bit more upwards force acting on it (due to the spin) counteracting gravity so it's final location will be a bit higher than a fastball (but not higher than where it would be if it just followed it's initial straight line trajectory..)

Caught thousands and never noticed