If a ChangeUp is the second pitch every budding young pitcher learns...

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
Here's one:

Paige Parker (Oklahoma)

not *perfect* 12-6 spin, but pretty damn close...
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
What the heck. It is 2020, what else could go wrong this year?

With credit to @riseball for explaining this to me...

There is another way to get the ball to move rather other than the Magnus Effect.

The most common example is the knuckle ball--the ball is thrown with minimal seam. As the ball rotates, the different seam orientation causes the ball to move in different directions.

But, you can get the same effect if you throw the ball with more speed and more spin *IF* you get the seam orientation correct.

If a ball is thrown with bullet spin *AND* the spin axis does not point in the same direction as the movement of the ball, THEN the seam halo is not symmetrical. (If you've caught someone throwing bulletspin pitchers, the catcher sees a red halo surrounding a yellow-green blob.) When the seam halo is asymmetrical, the pitch moves.

The attached picture shows two different seam orientations. In the first, axis of rotation of the ball is perfectly aligned with the direction of motion of the ball. The seam orientation is symmetrical, and therefore the ball doesn't move.

In the second example, the axis of rotation points up, so that the seams appear at the bottom of the ball, but not at the top of the ball. In flight, the seams deflect the air downward, causing the ball to move upward.

This is used in cricket all the time. A cricket ball has a single seam. By changing the orientation of the seam, a pitcher can make the ball move in and out.

In the Garcia pitch analysis posted previously, she gets the seam orientation perfect, and the girl misses the ball by a mile.

Watch the bottom of the 7th in the 2019 CWS UCLA v. OU. Garcia is throwing nothing but bulletspin riseballs and fastballs. If you go here to the 2:15:00 mark, you can see she throws a rise but does *NOT* get the seam orientation correct. The ball does not rise, and the ball goes out of the park.

 

Attachments

  • seamrise.jpg
    seamrise.jpg
    10.2 KB · Views: 20
Last edited:
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
113
1. Love the change-up and work on it a ton. Looks like I'm back to coaching again this year so will call for my DD to throw it a lot more than the 0-2 counts. Might even throw it 50% of the time if her fastball is on that day.


2. Her fastball is more bullet spin these days than 12-6. I'm a little concerned but I'm no pitching coach so am saying nothing to her to correct it. As Sluggers shows above, it's not a bad thing. I'll talk to her pitching coach about it soon.
 
May 23, 2015
999
63
A major part of this equation that gets ignores often is the distance between the release and plate. You only have so much room to let a pitch work

I still to baseball rules with pitchers. LMV. Location then movement then velocity. Velocity is way down the list for me. Check out this video. The majority are off speed pitches. 1:28 says bad words. Turn your volume down the soundtrack sucks

Another thing to look for is the pitchers shown are from the same outing. If its working let it eat
 
Mar 20, 2015
174
28
there are lots of criteria for throwing a ChangeUp well:
1. ~10%-12% speed difference
2. Decent revs (> 12-15rps minimum)
3. Same arm speed as fastball.
4. Same pre-motion and release point as fastball
5. Location command

Bonus:
1. Movement!

I think a lot of young pitchers, bucket dads, and/or coaches take the bait and teach a "flip change" because it is initially easy to comprehend and throw, but in the long run it is a very "feel based" pitch to throw at a high level, and most pitchers never master this technique. (How many flip changes do you see at the collegiate level? for example....) So at some point, most pitchers just abandon it.

But an 18U pitcher with a masterful changeup is just as rare and effective as an 18U pitcher with a masterful (true) riseball.
Another criteria is a good 1st pitch. For younger pitchers this is a fastball. Like any pitch a changeup takes work and has to be honed in the game and thrown time after time to be developed. I have found that most coaches at lower levels would rather just call the fastball unless its an 0-2 count which in my mind is the worst time to call it. Coaches are reluctant to call it enough especially early in the count or behind in the count. Many times with runners on or dropped 3rd strike the catchers struggle with it, some umpires struggle with it, it creates ground balls so the defense better be good, and also because most coaches at that level don't know how to adjust their mindset around anything but a fastball. The end result are fastball pitchers with a weak change up.
 
Last edited:

NBECoach

Learning everyday
Aug 9, 2018
408
63
First of all keep working on the change. You cannot expect to get better unless you work on it.

Even if you don't throw it for a strike throw the change up to show the opposition you have one. It makes the drop/rise seem that much faster and they may go fishing for it.

Someone smart once said that a decent change makes an average pitcher good and a good pitcher great.
 
Nov 26, 2010
4,784
113
Michigan
...then why do only about 10%-15% of the 18U pitchers we face "have" a ChangeUp?
Because at 10U no one goes online and brags about their DDs 35 MPH change up. It’s all about the gas. Whoever is sitting on the
Bucket needs to believe it’s important or it won’t be to your DD.

you might have to “learn” 3-5 change ups before you get one that your dd likes and can do consistently. Most people are giving it up after 2. My dd was late to the change up game, she was 14 and was still powering the ball past most completion. Tried the horseshoe, the flip, pushing the ball, dragging her feet... nothing worked it was just a pitch to try 2-3 times a game to hopefully make the other team think about it.

Went to a camp and was showed a knuckle grip, and it was perfect for her. First one she threw me it was unannounced. It felt Like it took forever to get to me and it broke a foot. It was a great tool ever after.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
you might have to “learn” 3-5 change ups before you get one that your dd likes and can do consistently. Most people are giving it up after 2. My dd was late to the change up game, she was 14 and was still powering the ball past most completion. Tried the horseshoe, the flip, pushing the ball, dragging her feet... nothing worked it was just a pitch to try 2-3 times a game to hopefully make the other team think about it.

Went to a camp and was showed a knuckle grip, and it was perfect for her. First one she threw me it was unannounced. It felt Like it took forever to get to me and it broke a foot. It was a great tool ever after.
This post has a very important message...
Keep the learning process going to find what works best for you the individual!
Nice to read the dedication to growing knowledge and developing success! 👍
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,481
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top