How pitches is too many at 10U

[mad hornet]

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do. But I saw a girl pitch nearly 7 games in 2 days at 10u last year. I (along with several other coaches) thought (and still do) her coach was out of his mind and the parents for allowing it.

That being said, she cruised through the season kicking butt and taking names. This year she's bigger and badder than ever.

I also talked to a D-III college player who told me she once pitched 6 games in a single day. I don't think anyone answered the questions if there are studies that show the long term effects. Just thinking outside the box a minute here. I came up through baseball as a kid and the pitch count thing has gotten pretty crazy. I recently read an article where Nolan Ryan was calling BS on pitch counts and in a lot of cases he thinks pitchers are being overly coddled. I think he might know what he's talking about.

I'm not saying anyone here should overwork their pitchers but is there anyone on the forum who was overused as a fastpitch pitcher and now regrets it?

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Here is an article that I often refer to. Strong-Arm Tactics

 

[WinThemAll]

It is wrong. The young girl goes all out the 1st game, stays at the tournament, maybe plays another position and by the time she pitches again, she is already fatigued. No matter what she says - her reaction time cannot be the same as it was during the first game. There is more to consider than her arm, although that is the main concern.

If you want her for later on, limit her innings in the 1st game.

You are going to need to explain this to all of the parents, that it is about the girls - not the score. The girls aren't going to care about the score, themselves. But, the parents will bring it up to them.

Also, take as good of care of your catchers as you are your pitchers.

I do agree about limiting innings, but that is why you count pitches.

If a 10-year old is having a problem with fatigue in playing a couple of games a day, there are other issues at hand. Usually too many cokes, hot dogs, candy and nachos at the concession stand.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Yes. I count pitches. But, I am a spectator watching my students pitch. I don't think that many coaches have any idea how many pitches their girls threw and they certainly aren't asking me. Innings might be the wrong word, since that could be anywhere from 3 pitches to 33 pitches +.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Also, something that gets overlooked is the amount of pitches being thrown BEFORE the game starts. If you add up all of the pitches before and during the game (including between innings warm-ups) you could be at 100+ very quickly.

 

[WinThemAll]

Here is an article that I often refer to. Strong-Arm Tactics

That is a very good article.

Most teams do not carry enough pitchers. I have six. 1 beginner -- who will not see the circle this summer. 3 that have pitched for over 3 years and 2 that are at two years. I use a combination of four of those in pool games and in the elimination rounds on Sunday. The fifth pitcher will get her experience in a couple of dh.

Most often, pitchers do not pitch a whole game, and the less experienced are used to burn innings in pool play or early elimination games.

 

[WinThemAll]

Also, something that gets overlooked is the amount of pitches being thrown BEFORE the game starts. If you add up all of the pitches before and during the game (including between innings warm-ups) you could be at 100+ very quickly.

Good point!

 

[NVfishing]

I say it depends on the girl. I haven't seen too many 10yo pitchers that can throw more than a full game in a day. At ten they seem to get tired and that's when injuries start.

 

[gvm]

our coach came over to the 9 yr. old pitchers father during her fourth game of the tournament. and said "she has a blister,should we cut it off or let her keep pitching"??

 

[sluggers]

I don't think anyone answered the questions if there are studies that show the long term effects.

Analysis Of Windmill Pitching Shows Risk Of Injury To Biceps In Softball Players, Rush University Medical Center (2009, March 28).

Biceps Activity During Windmill Softball Pitching Injury Implications and Comparison With Overhand Throwing, American Journal of Sports Medicine, March 2009, vol. 37, no. 3, 558-565.

Injuries to pitchers in women's collegiate fast-pitch softball, American Journal of Sports Medicine, January 1992, vol. 20, 35-37.

FEMALE COLLEGIATE WINDMILL PITCHERS: INFLUENCES TO INJURY INCIDENCE, Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2004, 18(3), 426–431

It is not like these studies are hidden. It is just much more convenient for coaches to ignore them. Let's get real--most of the TB teams have one good pitcher, one so-so pitcher and a bunch of bad pitchers. So, if the TB wants to win that important 10U tournament, they have to go with their good pitcher during the elimination round. And, unless you haven't noticed, coaches don't seem to care too much about the health of their players.

Of course, talking logic and science in a softball forum is sometimes futile, but I'll give it a try:

Pitching a softball places tremendous force on the bicep. While the bicep can handle a great deal of force, the tendons that attach the biceps to the shoulder can't. There are two tendons that attach the bicep to the shoulder. The tendon marked 5 is the short head bicep tendon and the tendon marked 10 is the long head.

Injury to a softball pitcher is usually a pulling or sprain of one of the two tendons. If you talk to a pitcher about shoulder pain, she usually points to the front of the shoulder, which is the short head tendon.

My DD pitched 5 to 7 games during a day several times. She is 30 YOA, and she doesn't complain about the pain. But she can't sleep on her right side because her shoulder hurts too much. Her short head tendon has been so stretched that she can grab it with her left hand and move it around.

There is absolutely nothing surprising about repetitive motion injuries and softball. Everyone knows that if you overdo any physical activity, that there will be long term problems. But, it is so much easier for coaches to ignore the science, and put their pitchers out there for 30 or 40 innings a day. If they didn't, well...they would have to train more pitchers, and that is something that they simply refuse to do.