How do I Score a Collision??

[VA Chris]

Thanks for all the replies.

For now, I have it posted as an error and not a 2B. Reason is because if the second baseman had not over pursued this would have been a fairly routine catch for the right fielder. Both players were in very close proximity to the ball when it landed. Please continue to provide advice on this situation. It is a simple push of the clear button to reset the error and make it a hit.

This is one of those, you had to be there cases. It was a simple pop fly that should have been easily caught. I am using SoCal Dad's advise:

14.21.7 An error is charged to a defensive player who collides with a fielder making the initial catch on a fly ball that is dropped.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Thanks for all the replies.

For now, I have it posted as an error and not a 2B. Reason is because if the second baseman had not over pursued this would have been a fairly routine catch for the right fielder. Both players were in very close proximity to the ball when it landed. Please continue to provide advice on this situation. It is a simple push of the clear button to reset the error and make it a hit.

This is one of those, you had to be there cases. It was a simple pop fly that should have been easily caught. I am using SoCal Dad's advise:

14.21.7 An error is charged to a defensive player who collides with a fielder making the initial catch on a fly ball that is dropped.

I'd still vote double. This wasn't a case of the fielder being positioned to make the catch and then having someone run into her. That's how I interpret the collision rule (for which I was unaware, so thanks for that clarification).

I don't give errors for overpursuing (misjudging) balls. I give them for failing to catch a ball when in good position to catch it.

 

[CoogansBluff]

There is a case where an error is charged on a collision.

14.21.7 An error is charged to a defensive player who collides with a fielder making the initial catch on a fly ball that is dropped.

SCD - Thanks for this. What rule book does this come?

 

[VA Chris]

I'd still vote double. This wasn't a case of the fielder being positioned to make the catch and then having someone run into her. That's how I interpret the collision rule (for which I was unaware, so thanks for that clarification).

I don't give errors for overpursuing (misjudging) balls. I give them for failing to catch a ball when in good position to catch it.

CoogansBluff/All-

I should have mentioned this is 14U B level TB. As the official score keeper of these amateur athletes I give a lot of grace before assigning errors. I use a sliding scale of difficulty before putting the "E" on a kid. For example, screamer off the bat hits the 3b in the glove and ball goes through to the outfield. IMHO, not always an "E" on 3b. If the kid had to make an extraordinary play to get the catch the ball, to me not an error.

In this case, I feel that if the RF had been un-interrupted this would have been a fairly routine F9 and batter would have been out. Sad part of this is that 2nd caused the collision. From what I am reading here, seems the error would have been on RF.

 

[CoogansBluff]

C

In this case, I feel that if the RF had been un-interrupted this would have been a fairly routine F9 and batter would have been out. Sad part of this is that 2nd caused the collision. From what I am reading here, seems the error would have been on RF.

I'm learning as I go about the collision rule because I'd never heard of it. My question is whether it applies to situations where the fielder was in pursuit, or only situations in which a fielder was already in position to catch it when 'interrupted' by another fielder.

 

[CoogansBluff]

For example, screamer off the bat hits the 3b in the glove and ball goes through to the outfield. IMHO, not always an "E" on 3b. If the kid had to make an extraordinary play to get the catch the ball, to me not an error.

.

I generally rule a hit on line drives that skip off infielder's gloves. But I think we have to be careful not to make a judgment on how well the ball was hit off the bat. Not saying you were doing that. But my point is just a reminder to scorekeepers in general that the issue is the amount of difficulty that a batted ball presents to the fielder. That might include a lazy fly ball into the wind or sun, or a popup that creates confusion as to who should catch it and drops safely among the fielders.

In this case, one might argue that this particular ball caused confusion. That is, in tracking it, it caused fielders to run into each other.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

SCD - Thanks for this. What rule book does this come?

I quoted the NCAA rule. NFCA's ATEC manual has the same rule with more detail.

x - If two fielders are running to field a fly ball, one catches it and the second one hits her and causes her to drop it, credit the error to the player who collided with the player who initially caught the ball.

I confirmed your underestanding of the rule without considering what you meant by "camped" and it dawned on me afterward that was probably too liberal of an interpretation for a rule that says "dropped." Badmonkeys is correct regarding the literal application of the rule. Bottom line is you have to be sure the fielder would have caught the ball before charging an error on another fielder for making them miss it.

 

[VA Chris]

I quoted the NCAA rule. NFCA's ATEC manual has the same rule with more detail.

x - If two fielders are running to field a fly ball, one catches it and the second one hits her and causes her to drop it, credit the error to the player who collided with the player who initially caught the ball.

I confirmed your underestanding of the rule without considering what you meant by "camped" and it dawned on me afterward that was probably too liberal of an interpretation for a rule that says "dropped." Badmonkeys is correct regarding the literal application of the rule. Bottom line is you have to be sure the fielder would have caught the ball before charging an error on another fielder for making them miss it.

Ok- question for the masses, what is considered a routine fly ball at TB B level play. As I mentioned the ball was just coming down as the batter crossed first base. The order of events was: batter hit ball, collision occurred, I sent runner to 2b, I looked to RF and watched the ball drop.

Being as the ball was in the air for so long and their was plenty of time to make a play. Does this meet the criteria for "routine fly ball"? IMO RF would have easily made the catch had 2nd left her un-harmed. I really think the biggest error was RF did not call the ball but instead just moved towards the trajectory of the falling ball.

Please ask for more details if needed. Appreciate the discussion so far.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Thanks. That's very helpful. Learned something in this thread.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Ok- question for the masses, what is considered a routine fly ball at TB B level play. As I mentioned the ball was just coming down as the batter crossed first base. The order of events was: batter hit ball, collision occurred, I sent runner to 2b, I looked to RF and watched the ball drop.

Being as the ball was in the air for so long and their was plenty of time to make a play. Does this meet the criteria for "routine fly ball"? IMO RF would have easily made the catch had 2nd left her un-harmed. I really think the biggest error was RF did not call the ball but instead just moved towards the trajectory of the falling ball.

I'd also score it a double. There are several reasons why failing to catch an apparent routine fly ball is not charged as an error (e.g. sun, wind, misjudged). When 2 players are in position to catch a fly ball and let it drop between them (no collision), it is a misplay - not an error. I'd treat 2 fielders colliding in pursuit of a ball the same way. You don't charge an error on the fielder you thought should have caught the fly ball.

Some people might think this is too generous, but it is offset by other rules where batters don't get credit for a hit. For example, say there was a runner on 1B that held expecting the fly ball to be caught and the defense threw them out at 2B. The batter would get FC instead of a hit in that case.