Hip Bruising Due to Elbow "Plant"

[Doug Romrell]

Believe me, I've seen some really poor mechanics in my day.........everything is relative so to say that this young lady has decent mechanics (for her age) is a compliment. If you look at the most recent slow motion post you can see there are still a few things to clean up before she wins a national championship. For example if you stop the video at release point it appears that she is a slight bit over closed both in hips and shoulders.......the deceleration of rotation could be better which would probably result in a less closed position at release and an even better transfer of energy.
Now having said that.....again, this young lady is doing very well. I know for a fact that my own DD was not at this level at the same age.

Rick, This hip-being-over-closed suggestion rung a bell for me. In pitching with my DD just last night, her hip was over-closing at times resulting in her arm hitting rather than brushing her hip. I found that part of the problem was that she was not opening the hips sufficiently and she was trying to close them too much just prior to release. What helped her was telling her that while she should remain square as she initiates her leap, as soon as she actually pushes off the rubber her hips should fully open. Further, I told her not to focus much, if any, on closing the hips, as they would close somewhat (40-45 degrees) on their own from heal-plant to release. It seemed to help her. Of course, until I got advice from you and others, DD was tilting a lot toward 3B to avoid hitting or brushing her hip. It's been a tough thing to break. We're making progress, however.

As you stated, Rick, I think this young lady is doing very well. Wish my kid would have been pitching and playing at that age!

 

[Rick Pauly]

Rich
The disagreement regarding the forearm brushing all the way down to just above the wrist; is it because of an injury concern or do you consider it a poor way to stabilize and transfer energy? I see so many elite level pitchers that get the brush on the forearm nearly to the wrist joint that I am really interested in your opinions on this.
For any newbies on the site, Rich is one of the very top instructors on the west coast and has lots of students pitching at the upper collegiate levels.

Rick
A great job in describing much of what happens when the upper arm comes into the side and the upper inside of the forearm comes into the hip. I would disagree though, rather emphatically, that there should be further contact down the lower arm towards the wrist on the thigh.

 

[Ken B]

 

[Doug Romrell]

Abbott sure seems to get significant "brush interference."

[video]http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=vsg76w%3E&s=5#.UrS7l_TW6So[/video]

 

[Rich Balswick]

Rich
The disagreement regarding the forearm brushing all the way down to just above the wrist; is it because of an injury concern or do you consider it a poor way to stabilize and transfer energy? I see so many elite level pitchers that get the brush on the forearm nearly to the wrist joint that I am really interested in your opinions on this.
For any newbies on the site, Rich is one of the very top instructors on the west coast and has lots of students pitching at the upper collegiate levels.

Rick
Thanks for your response. One question I could ask is "what purpose does it serve to have continuing contact further down the forearm towards the wrist?"
From my standpoint I feel that the delivery is better served by having the contact point being very specific and centralized. The further down the forearm there is contact the more muffled the release potentially becomes which can adversely effect speed, spin and spot (control). Part of the reason we need flex in the arm as we approach the release point is to help create space for the lower arm to freely pass through without hitting the thigh.
Also, I might add that the flap (attached to the upper leg) that is often used by many as a teaching tool as a reference point for staying close to the body, hip, and leg becomes a mute point when proper instruction is being utilized at the hip that you so effectively illustrated in the video with your daughter.
I would agree that there have been a number of good pitchers who make contact quite low on their forearm; but it is a very difficult model to follow.

 

[Rich Balswick]

When I watch Boomers dd pitch, although she has smoothed out a lot since seeing her first video, my main thought is that she is way to rotational as she finishes her pitch to the point of coming around her stride foot instead of sliding in behind it. When a pitchers glove arm behaves as her's does with a lot of bend in it as she starts driving the ball forward thru the bottom of the arc, it is a sure sign that she is still forcing the ball too much which creates variables like possibly "clobbering" her moving hip as she comes by with her pitching arm or missing her hip entirely. If she would stop forcing the ball, part of that expression would be, being able to comfortably keep her glove arm straight as it drops to her thigh and then maintaining more of a 45 degree angle thru the delivery.

 

[JJsqueeze]

OILF- so you are saying that there should be no contact at all?

 

[Boomers2012]

I am not sure why so much torture to learning pitching.

I normally do not retort on posts but this one takes the cake........most absurd thing i have heard on this forum.

 

[Rich Balswick]

Just as you are concerned with over distance pitching, I'm concerned about kids having to go through bruising. You're going to get gun shy girls as someone posted. There's no way you're going to get kids not injuring themselves, or even get a tired or "off day" pitcher to brush just right. That is why I like the flap that Hillhouse has for young pitchers. I totally agree with Hal who posted you can't really see the brush or whatever, it could be 1/8" off the body, how do you know? I also agree that in no way should it go all the way down your forearm. That just sounds crazy when you think of it in terms of overhand throw or golf swing or anything. It reminds me of the coach in that ugly video who is holding the kids arm to try and force a snap. I am not sure why so much torture to learning pitching.

OILF.... I have many students come to me who are gun shy about contacting their hip and I very much understand why. I even had a young lady come to me maybe 6 months ago or so who had broken her elbow bone two different times from improperly hitting her hip. You could imagine what her response was when I asked to consider this technique. I told her that I was amazed that she still had the courage to swing her arm in a circle even close to her hip and for that matter even give serious thought to continuing to pitch. Because of my particular understanding for the need for this technique, I encouraged her to consider giving it a shot which she did under my more than ever careful tutelage. She adapted quickly and effectively and today has a major D1 scholarship committed to her. So when you talk about side-stepping this "torment", my take is that you have a very limited understanding of what is gained thru this technique. (What is gained is more efficiency for speed, spin, and spots and when the swing point at release is transferred to the elbow it reduces the stress on the shoulder and much of the rest of the body.) I wouldn't for a moment put her into this if it wasn't such a high priority for maximizing her talent. Obviously I respect Mr.Hillhouse; but it would be an area that we would need to agree to disagree for this being such a high priority. So when a "flap" is discussed, they're not feeling what I feel or what my accomplished students feel. From my perspective it is a risk worth taking that is a tad higher than getting out of bed in the morning
Merry Christmas!!

 

[Ken B]

Bump...... (I mean "brush!")