He's making her slap her thigh.

[cthur]

It was pretty amazing that when we started the session he told my daughter that if you do the drills and follow exactly what I tell you to do, you will gain 2 to 3 miles per hour by then end of the 2nd (1hr) session. He explained to her everywhere she was losing speed. He said after that it is just a matter of repetition. Another example given was the hand inside the glove. He said if you leave it open and loose rather than clenching it inside the glove you will gain 1 to 2/10ths of 1 mph.

By the end of the 2 sessions, she was pitching 3 mph faster and as stated above, after two weeks, she is up 5 mph. He told her in 6 months by the start of HS, she should have gained close to 10 mph if she does all of the things he told her to do.

That being said, she is 17, and was pitching about 48 mph before she started the sessions, so I do not think this would be the same with and 11 or 12 year old because they don't have the body to do that at that age.

 

[Softball scholar]

If it improves tennis, then why don't all the women do it? How come no men do it? I go to many pro and amateur tourneys. Have you sat there? I have.

It is a trick, for show, way louder than it needs to be, and part of it is that women tend to be more agreeable about doing silly things their coaches ask them. The other day, I mentioned to my players I hated something they were doing as a joke and they literally stopped doing it! So I have to be careful.

In junior tennis, they are trying to teach grunting out of the kids. This theory has been around before and debunked in weight lifting. Yes if you are at your breaking point of energy maybe, but not every rep.

OILF,


A lot of women do grunt in tennis. We probably should classify into screamers and grunters. I think the grunt is good as it promotes exhalation at contact which is what you want in pitching also. I heard Bolletari was recommending it to his Juniors. It also promotes tighter core muscles. I would classify it more as a style thing than a absolute.


I didn't know grunting was debunked in weight lifting. I know some men on tour also grunt (see Granollers), but not near as bad. I would say a little grunt is not bad in pitching or tennis. Ive been to a few tournaments in my time, but the shrieking of Sharapova and Azarenka are way over the top.

 

[SBmom8992]

Grunting leads to better tennis, says science - The Washington Post

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I totally agree that worst thing about slapping is the injury risk. How can people argue that slapping yourself 10s of thousands of times a year isnt good for the body.

With folks slapping themselves thousands of times a year .... and with surety that it is harmful .... then it shouldn't be difficult for you to present such data.

Looking forward to seeing that data.

 

[Ken B]

Jimmy Connors and Andre Agassi are notable grunters from male tennis history. Contemporary superstar, Rafael Nadal is also a well known grunter.

Not trying to beat the carcass into oblivion, but slapping is not the goal. Creating power through adduction is. If this action happens to cause a brush or bump of the glove on the thigh, then no biggie. I'd hope no one would advocate for beating the leg with a glove or purposely slapping loudly for distraction.

Adducting with the glove side is used (universally) by baseball pitchers and in many other sports. Why limit our kids if the action results in light contact?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

My daughter slapped her leg up until two weeks ago. We recently went to a pitching camp where the instructor talked about wasting energy and taking away from pitch speed. He was the first instructor to explain why this was not good. He actually gave two reasons. 1. It is an indicator to the batter. 2. It is wasted energy you are taking away from the speed of the pitch. Don't quote me on the exact number, but I think he quoted something like 2 or 3/10ths of 1 MPH. He taught to just tuck the arm by the shoulder or to keep the elbow at a 45 degree angle with the glove open away from the body. I don't know how much this increased my daughter's pitching speed, but overall in the last 2 weeks, she has gained 5 mph due to the adjustments that he made.

As I tried to explain earlier, #1 (an indicator to the batter), is based on an incorrect understanding of hitting.

As BM tried to explain in his demonstration shown earlier in this thread ... it isn't a waste of energy, but more a confirmation of appropriately directed energy.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

^ Yes. That is what I teach.

Just an update on my student, her lessons are paid for and she hasn't been back. I walked through her dugout the other day and she turned her back to me. I don't think that she has turned 11, yet. I am afraid that her coach has told her she can't come to lessons. We have had a great relationship for 18 months and I have sat and listened to her cry, twice, over losses. I don't get it, but I am sure it wasn't her decision. My relationship with her mom and dad has always been good, too.

Sort of sad ending.

IMO there was no reason to take a "my way or the highway" approach over this particular issue.

As was pointed out ... many elite level pitchers have such a mechanic. Maybe I missed it, but you weren't able to explain how this mechanic prevented anything useful in what you teach.

Personally I would have liked to have seen a better ending. Something more along the lines of you continuing to help and improve this girl, despite her embracing a glove slap.

 

[cthur]

As I tried to explain earlier, #1 (an indicator to the batter), is based on an incorrect understanding of hitting.

As BM tried to explain in his demonstration shown earlier in this thread ... it isn't a waste of energy, but more a confirmation of appropriately directed energy.

I will take results in my daughter and the actual results of the other girls on our team that went to the same clinic over anything that I have read or seen on here. The instructor broke down every area of her pitching motion and told her that she would gain this much speed if she changed these things. He was on target with all of the girls in the sessions. I will go with results over mixed theories anyday.

 

[Classof2020]

My daughter slapped her leg up until two weeks ago. We recently went to a pitching camp where the instructor talked about wasting energy and taking away from pitch speed. He was the first instructor to explain why this was not good. He actually gave two reasons. 1. It is an indicator to the batter. 2. It is wasted energy you are taking away from the speed of the pitch. Don't quote me on the exact number, but I think he quoted something like 2 or 3/10ths of 1 MPH. He taught to just tuck the arm by the shoulder or to keep the elbow at a 45 degree angle with the glove open away from the body. I don't know how much this increased my daughter's pitching speed, but overall in the last 2 weeks, she has gained 5 mph due to the adjustments that he made.

That is amazing that at her age she was able to break a habit like a glove slap so quickly. So can you explain what you mean by "tucking the arm by the shoulder"? or the other option of leaving it "away from the body" I am picturing a pitcher trying to keep a static glove arm jammed next to their body or sticking straight out and am really confused. I'm not interested in changing my DD who is a happy glove slapper but I'm thinking for other people reading it you might want to clarify. Oh and she grunts sometimes too so I guess she has all kinds of issues

 

[cthur]

That is amazing that at her age she was able to break a habit like a glove slap so quickly. So can you explain what you mean by "tucking the arm by the shoulder"? or the other option of leaving it "away from the body" I am picturing a pitcher trying to keep a static glove arm jammed next to their body or sticking straight out and am really confused. I'm not interested in changing my DD who is a happy glove slapper but I'm thinking for other people reading it you might want to clarify. Oh and she grunts sometimes too so I guess she has all kinds of issues

My first attempt at uploading a picture on here. I could not find one with the arm tucked. The best way to describe the arm tucked is the position that most PC's teach their pitchers to be in after the ball is pitched. The defensive position with the glove up and ready to move to protect herself her face or other body parts on a line drive.