Hazing in in HS Girls Sports

[sluggers]

HS Girls Soccer Hazing

One of these types of stories comes out every year or so. Do coaches, parents and players not care? Or do they think they won't get caught?

 

[Ken Krause]

I dunno. It's a stupid idea, but I don't see it as hazing or harmful. As I view hazing, it's something a group in power forces onto a group looking for acceptance, and that is meant to humiliate or otherwise put the weaker group in an uncomfortable position. The "atomic sit-ups" a group of HS wrestlers was subjected to a few years ago would be a good example. Grabbing an unwilling underclassman and giving him a "pink belly" would be another.

If the underclassmen felt pressured to participate against their wills it would be one thing. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. Maybe I'm the minority, but I don't see this as being any more harmful than the freshmen being required to sing a song or do a goofy dance for the entertainment of the seniors. And believe me, I hate bullying in all its forms. I just don't see that here.

 

[fastpitch]

While I think the punishment was tough in this case considering the circumstances, I believe this falls under the definition of hazing.

From Wikipedia.
"Hazing is a term used to describe various ritual and other activities involving harassments, abuse or humiliation used as a way of initiating a person into a group."

Even if these girls were willing participants in being led around by a dog leash and having shaving cream pies thrown at them during the initiation; they were being "hazed". The pressure to be accepted sometimes is so great that most kids will do almost anything and be convinced they were willing.

The principal, being responsible for these kids well being was completely in his right to do that. There should be no "gray" area here when dealing with kids and something like this. It starts with fun and games as shaving cream pies and dog leashes; but undoubtedly will evolve year after year into something a little more crazy. If it isn't stopped and enforced immediately someones child will eventually get hurt or some unwilling student/athlete will do something they just really didn't want to do to be accepted. In our area some high school cheerleaders were being asked to make out with certain football players to be "initiated". Willing or not, that is just not acceptable.

I assume the coach didn't have one but if he/she didn't I blame the coach here for not making a strict no hazing policy to begin with and clearly defining what that is. My son's HS coach made it clear that there is "no hazing" allowed and there will be automatic suspension from the team and other physical training consequences if it comes to light there is any. It just simply isn't tolerated there in any form.

 

[crystlemc]

Alright, my opinion may not be popular, but here goes...

You can have the world's strictest anti-hazing policy, but these things are going to continue to go on, albeit more clandestinely. And I guarantee that any kid who truly wants to play that sport is going to go along with it and keep their mouth shut. Like it or not, that is part of how you prove that you are "down with" the team. And if a player were stupid enough to complain about the hazing to someone in authority, I promise you that their season will be made so miserable and they will be such an outcast that they may never play the game again.

These rituals and behaviors are not new. We had them 20+ years ago when I was a player. I am not scarred, I didn't feel "picked on". I knew it was part of being part of the team. Maybe, rather than say they can't do it, give them some appropriate guidelines. I truly think that would be more effective.

This is just another way that our kids are being "sissyfied". People wonder why today's youth are so out of control. Maybe it's because we are making them too soft and too entitled. Not to sound overly cliche, but these types of things build character. They help to make you into an adult. It teaches you how to persevere.

 

[starsnuffer]

Before you know it, we'll start giving out awards for participation.

-W

 

[01mom]

Alright, my opinion may not be popular, but here goes...

You can have the world's strictest anti-hazing policy, but these things are going to continue to go on, albeit more clandestinely. And I guarantee that any kid who truly wants to play that sport is going to go along with it and keep their mouth shut. Like it or not, that is part of how you prove that you are "down with" the team. And if a player were stupid enough to complain about the hazing to someone in authority, I promise you that their season will be made so miserable and they will be such an outcast that they may never play the game again.

These rituals and behaviors are not new. We had them 20+ years ago when I was a player. I am not scarred, I didn't feel "picked on". I knew it was part of being part of the team. Maybe, rather than say they can't do it, give them some appropriate guidelines. I truly think that would be more effective.

This is just another way that our kids are being "sissyfied". People wonder why today's youth are so out of control. Maybe it's because we are making them too soft and too entitled. Not to sound overly cliche, but these types of things build character. They help to make you into an adult. It teaches you how to persevere.

I fully agree. As long as there are guidelines and they aren't crossed. I see nothing wrong with an initiation type thing. I went through a week initiation as a cheerleader in middle school in the early 90's. It was fun things like one day you had to wear your clothes inside out, mismatched clothes on another etc. and that Friday night at the local skating rink our "big sisters" (girls that were already on the squad before us) got to dress us up and then they got to feed us (at least a small bite) "strange food". It was things like liver, squid, potted meat that was labeled as dog food...Our coach, friends, and parents were there taking pictures and making sure nothing got out of hand, it was soooooo much fun and we all were like sisters in the end.

 

[crystlemc]

Carrying equipment for seniors is one thing, but the rest is unnecessary. The excuse that you went through it is not a good reason. Today, there is Facebook, texting, etc. and it can get out of hand easily. It is not like the old days. Often it becomes a mob mentality.

I was never hazed; it does nothing, and hazing serves no purpose. I would not have found it OK and would have quit. I am far from a sissy, but the focus is softball, not being either BFFs or enemies with your teammates (just respected and trusted teammates). Doing the athletic skills are enough work these days to add hazing to it.

Let's leave the drama to the travel softball parents.

And back then there were phones and passing notes in class... what's your point? And at no point did I say because I went through it, everyone should. I offered anecdotal evidence that not everyone is so stinking thin-skinned.

Kids are going to do these things. No matter how many rules you have, it will still happen. And if you are the "squealer" who goes whining to the coach/AD/whatever, you can be you sure won't be a "trusted teammate". So, it's better to have some guidelines and have it out in the open, than to strong arm ban it and have them sneak around doing something potentially dangerous/illegal.

And just to send a point home, my dd is thought of by much of her team as a dork. She is kind of socially awkward. If something like what was reported in that article would help her relationship with her teammates, by all means.... do it.

 

[01mom]

My point is that if there are guidelines and the girls want to do it...let them, just make sure that the coaches and parents are involved to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. Most schools do a spirit week type thing where the kids actually pay each day so they can "dress up" if it's things like that done in fun...then personally I see no harm in that type of "hazing". IMO things like that create bonding time between the girls and makes them get to know each other off the field, they could even do a sleepover where the new girls have to wear pink pj's or sleep in their uniform or something. Even you said you see no harm in carrying the seniors equipment. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it should be something that HAS to be done..but if the girls want to have initiations find a way for them to be done safely and in a fun controlled environment.

 

[fastpitch]

Alright, my opinion may not be popular, but here goes...

You can have the world's strictest anti-hazing policy, but these things are going to continue to go on, albeit more clandestinely. And I guarantee that any kid who truly wants to play that sport is going to go along with it and keep their mouth shut. Like it or not, that is part of how you prove that you are "down with" the team. And if a player were stupid enough to complain about the hazing to someone in authority, I promise you that their season will be made so miserable and they will be such an outcast that they may never play the game again.

These rituals and behaviors are not new. We had them 20+ years ago when I was a player. I am not scarred, I didn't feel "picked on". I knew it was part of being part of the team. Maybe, rather than say they can't do it, give them some appropriate guidelines. I truly think that would be more effective.

This is just another way that our kids are being "sissyfied". People wonder why today's youth are so out of control. Maybe it's because we are making them too soft and too entitled. Not to sound overly cliche, but these types of things build character. They help to make you into an adult. It teaches you how to persevere.

First... why would you call any child stupid for telling an authority or AD if they felt something was inappropriate?

Just because the kids will haze anyway doesn't mean those in authority such as parents/coaches/teachers should turn a blind eye to it. I realize 90% of the things that go on appear harmless. But these are kids. Kids that really may not know when enough is enough. Do you really expect them to know what is acceptable and what isn't? What kind of guidelines would you impose? Where do you draw the line? Is it when it involves alcohol? Is it when they are asked to do something sexual? Is it when they are asked to walk around in their underwear? What if they didn't want to do it no matter how easy or harmless it was? Should they be ex-communicated? Should the coach bench a player who didn't want to be "initiated" even if it was under your proposed "hazing guidelines"?

I'm happy you aren't scarred by whatever it is you went through. And you are probably right... any kid who really wants to play will probably go along with whatever it is. The problem I have is why do they even need to go through with any of it?

I applaud those who have the courage to not feel like they have to do any "initiation" ritual to be "down" with the team they already made by trying out and just show it on the field. That's where we you see some real character. Not some mob following person doing whatever it is the so-called "leaders" of the team want so they can be "down".

 

[crystlemc]

First... why would you call any child stupid for telling an authority or AD if they felt something was inappropriate?

Just because the kids will haze anyway doesn't mean those in authority such as parents/coaches/teachers should turn a blind eye to it. I realize 90% of the things that go on appear harmless. But these are kids. Kids that really may not know when enough is enough. Do you really expect them to know what is acceptable and what isn't? What kind of guidelines would you impose? Where do you draw the line? Is it when it involves alcohol? Is it when they are asked to do something sexual? Is it when they are asked to walk around in their underwear? What if they didn't want to do it no matter how easy or harmless it was? Should they be ex-communicated? Should the coach bench a player who didn't want to be "initiated" even if it was under your proposed "hazing guidelines"?

I'm happy you aren't scarred by whatever it is you went through. And you are probably right... any kid who really wants to play will probably go along with whatever it is. The problem I have is why do they even need to go through with any of it?

I applaud those who have the courage to not feel like they have to do any "initiation" ritual to be "down" with the team they already made by trying out and just show it on the field. That's where we you see some real character. Not some mob following person doing whatever it is the so-called "leaders" of the team want so they can be "down".

This response is, in my opinion, reactionary and alarmist. I'm guessing you jump to the worst possible conclusion with everything. Justify making these kids wimps in any fashion you like. You'll not change my opinion. You can "applaud those who have the courage" all you like while they're sitting on the sidelines watching all the other kids play because the ones they got in trouble have made them quit.

And these are HS kids, not 2nd graders. They are perfectly capable of knowing when enough is enough and what is acceptable, unless they are complete morons. And who said anything about a coach benching a player for not participating? It has nothing to do with coaching. It is a player led activity. Just like a prayer before a game. The coach should not initiate it and there should be no consequences pertaining to not participating. However, the fact remains, that kids (girls in particular) have their own special brand of justice. If someone doesn't participate, yeah, they may get picked on. But if someone "squeals", they will most certainly be ex-communicated. I don't care how idealistic you may be, it's a fact of life that kids are all about conformity and peer punishment.

I would also like to point out, that given reasonable guidelines, HS kids will 90% of the time, stay within those guidelines if given the freedom to choose the activity within the constraints of said guidelines.

One last thing. I didn't call anyone stupid. I think it would be a stupid move. That doesn't mean I think that kid is stupid. Please, don't read further into my words than that which was posted. It's all pretty self-explanatory.