Hazing in in HS Girls Sports

[jacketsfan]

Teenage girls are complete morons--I raised three and coached many, many others. Most lack judgment. Most can be easily manipulated by a strong leader. They will do almost anything to fit in. And, when they are in a group and "the group" decides to do something, they will go along with it.

Could not agree more. I am raising three, and have coached many as well, and this is spot on.

 

[SoftSocDad]

Jacketsfan: You're right about one thing - a mob mentality *has* taken over this country and it's a mentality that praises the cultivation of weakness.

You should not be so quick to condemn 'bullies'. After all, they had bad childhoods.

If I'm correct, these girls were hit in the face with pies. Since that's assault and battery, the perpetrators should all be arrested and duly charged. And because the victims were of the same gender and someone may have been touched in an inappropriate manner, they should all be required to register as sex offenders as well.

 

[sluggers]

Hmmm...I'm trying to figure out my reaction to what SoftSocDad wrote.

IMHO, the hazing problem is serious, and that the school acted appropriately. But, my thinking is, "A rule is a rule. The kids violated the rule. They kids pay the price for not following the rule."

So, does SoftSocDad mean that the whining and crying by the parents about their little darlings getting punished for breaking a clear, unambiguous rule is part of the mob mentality cultivating weakness?

Or does he mean that the school district is overstepping by having any rules about hazing?

 

[SoftSocDad]

If these pies-to-the-face had happened individually, we'd be talking about x-number of assaults...or maybe we'd just be talking about x-number of practical jokes. But because the act was seemingly ritualized, it therefore is labeled as 'hazing', a buzzword intended to ruffle feathers.

I absolutely laugh at the suggestion that this 'crime' rises to the level of hazing. I say that not having seen any video or having read any victims' statements. My argument is based solely on the fact that all these young adults were allegedly willing participants in an activity intended to be non-injurious and which had no potential 'victims' outside of that group of young people.

And what if they'd made the underclassmen carry their equipment? Would we then charge them with hazing because the underclassmen were subjected to labor they otherwise would not have been subjected to? What's next, a slavery charge?

I don't get why so many of you - like this judge - are so eager to punish the victims, too. That just makes no sense to me.

 

[crystlemc]

Sorry, crystle, you are flat wrong here.

There is no excuse for bullying, and hazing is a form of that. On my DD's HS team,. bullying is rampant. There are several 3-time letter winners contemplating not returning for their senior years because it has gotten so bad. For some, it started in their freshman year, 3 years ago, when they would not participate in a hazing event, and has been hell since.

These humiliation exercises do not make you tougher - they make you humiliated. Mob mentality takes over, and things get out of hand. How exactly is that good for a person? I'm not seeing it.

You, in fact, are condoning the bullying by saying "they will be run off the team if they don't participate". Since when is it that it is a requirement to be humiliated in front of the school, to somehow gain credibility for being a good player? How can it possibly be acceptable for a kid, especially a freshman who is trying to get her feet on the ground in HS, to be bullied off of a team for something stupid like this? Why is it OK for a kid who has worked her butt off for 5 or more years to get to this point, to develop herself as a player as much as she can, to be made an outcast because of some bully's actions?

I think you know the answer is that it is not OK.

These freshman have peer pressure beyond anything we knew as kids. When my DD was a freshman, seniors would walk up to her the first few weeks of school and tell her "after school, you are going to meet me at my car, and we are going to have sex" (of course, they described it much more graphically). How many scared freshmen do you think went along with this? How, as a parent, do you distinguish this from a real and credible threat from a stupid kid being a smarta##? In my day, my dad would have beaten my butt, and taken me to school to apologize for threatening a girl like that. Do you think that happens now? Or do parents like you out there say "toughen up kid" to these girls being threatened this way. She was afraid to go to school, for fear she was going to be raped. Was I over-parenting to be worried for her safety?

On top of that, and other issues, it's OK to be hazed and bullied?

My DD is far from made of glass - but you have no idea of what pressures these kids are dealing with at school. It all hits them at once. You may say they are over-parented, but I say right is right, and wrong is wrong.

Maybe the bullies are under-parented.

I'm sorry, but the whole sex thing... that's not a scared freshman. That's a stupid freshman with no guts.

And I believe you are terribly arrogant to tell someone that their opinion is flat-out wrong. Please do not EVER presume to tell me what I do and do not know is wrong. I have my opinion, I am entitled to it, and your little rant here does nothing to change that.

As far as not know the pressure teenagers face, well, I have a 19yo and a 16yo. Both of whom talk to me about everything. So I can tell you, I most certainly do know. I also know that both of my children know exactly how to handle themselves in an intimidating situation. And again (because you clearly haven't read my posts thoroughly), I am not advocating activities that are dangerous or illegal. I am saying, again, that they can be done within guidelines with the spirit they were intended.

 

[jacketsfan]

OK, you guys are right. Hazing is not injurious, and only woosies are offended by it. If you an individual is offended, bullied, or injured in the process, they are weak and deserved to be culled from the herd of the strong.

Being able to play the game really has nothing to do with whether you should be allowed to play. Only kids who are tough enough, as defined by the bullies and hazers, should be allowed to participate.

I apologize that, for a moment, I thought that being inflicted with emotional or physical damage by others would be wrong. How insensitive of me to the rights of the bullies to inflict this damage on others.

 

[crystlemc]

Let me explain something to you. My 11yo seems to attract bullies. She is very sensitive and just wants to be everyone's friend. That makes her an easy target. It breaks my heart when these things happen to her, but together, we have figured out how she should deal with these people. Never once have I called the school or the parents. All that does is make the bullying worse and it teaches my child to be a coward who I don't believe is able to solve her own problems. Each bully has required a different technique to "disarm" them, but my dd has turned around every one of those situations without running to have someone fight her battles for her. It has taught her to overcome adversity and to deal with the many different personalities in society.

So do I think bullying is wrong? Yes
Do I think it should happen? No
Do I believe the parents of bullies know their child is like that? Most times. And I fully believe it's they're fault the child is like that.
But I also believe it is my responsibility as a mother to make sure my children can handle their own unless it is a situation that is obviously beyond them (ie. molestation, abuse, etc.). But when it comes to peers harassing them, they know how to take care of it.
Do I think bullying and hazing are two different things? ABSOLUTELY! I believe that what was mentioned in that article is far from harmful. If that was emotionally damaging to you, then maybe therapy would be a better choice.

 

[01mom]

Jacketsfan, I think you are really misunderstanding what is being said. There is this strong arm ban on "hazing" yet it continues to happen, some cases are harmless fun and some are more serious and dangerous. I will only speak for myself here, but I think some of the others agree...lose the "hazing" term and call it initiation (IF AND ONLY IF the girls want to do it) and make sure there are rules set for it and that there is adult involvement to ensure that it is fun and safe for all involved. There are millions of ways to have fun initiations... or society can keep saying "NO IT'S BAD AND HARMFUL" and the kids go and do it anyway unsupervised. If you tell a child/teen no they are going find ways to do it anyway. I know I would feel much better about having involvement/say so over what is/isn't part of an initiation....I mean really it could be something as simple as they have to sit together as a team at lunch for a week which means they are going to talk to/get to know each other and develop friendships off the field. There is no reason that initiations have to be something bad.

 

[PAcoach]

I can't honestly think back to any event "hazing" or "initiation" that was kinda like tradition at my school that i would consider dangerous, bullying or whatever. It was all in good fun. Sure there may have been embarresment or a little icey hot got smeared somewhere it shouldn't have, but it was good clean fun.

I had to sing our schools Alma Mater when commanded to do so by any upper classman teammate, through all of 2 a days and then the 1st full week of school.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Isn't high school difficult enough that we don't have to subject our DDs to hazing (or "initiation rituals) to be accepted by fellow students / athletes. When I played varsity soccer in high school, we juniors all respected and looked up to the senior starters and wanted to play like them, etc. I don't think I would have had the same respect for them had they subjected us to humilation through some mean-spirited ritual. By the way, if you are going to have an initation ritual, why can't you make it a positive experience, it doesn't have to be mean-spirited just because players did it 30 years ago that way. I also remember in high school, a story about how some fraternity brothers locked a pledge in the truck of a car and would not let him out until he drank something like two galleon of water in x minutes. The pledge died from consuming too much water (apparently people can die from drinking too much water, too quickly). Before the incident, I'm sure the frat bros thought this was innocent fun.