foul ball out or dead ball?

[sportinus]

We had a play that the batter fouled the ball off the catchers helmet which redirected the ball into the umpires mask, then the catcher caught the ball. The ump called the batter out. I thought once it hit the umpire it was a dead ball since he is in foul terriitory. I know if it hits an umpire in fair territory it is a live ball.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Pretty sure the ump is part of the field and as such once it hits the ump it would be no different that hitting the ground, fence or other object. Since HPU is in foul territory, once it hits him it would be a foul ball "dead ball" unless there is some really odd ball rule I'm unaware of.

I know if it hit one player and is caught by a second player w/o hitting the ground it would be an out but when it hits an ump I believe it is considered the same as hitting the ground.

Again I could be wrong on that.

 

[MTR]

We had a play that the batter fouled the ball off the catchers helmet which redirected the ball into the umpires mask, then the catcher caught the ball. The ump called the batter out. I thought once it hit the umpire it was a dead ball since he is in foul terriitory.

Foul ball

I know if it hits an umpire in fair territory it is a live ball.

Not always true.

Pretty sure the ump is part of the field and as such once it hits the ump it would be no different that hitting the ground, fence or other object. Since HPU is in foul territory, once it hits him it would be a foul ball "dead ball" unless there is some really odd ball rule I'm unaware of.

Do not confuse this with a fair batted ball, not the same.

I know if it hit one player and is caught by a second player w/o hitting the ground it would be an out but when it hits an ump I believe it is considered the same as hitting the ground.

Again I could be wrong on that.

That is not true of a ball going directly from that bat to any part of the catcher's body or equipment. That would be a deal ball, also.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Thanks MTR, I'll do a mini-hijack with a hypothetical if that is OK. Ball hits base ump in field of play (fair territory) on line drive from batter. Ball ricochets straight up in the air where SS catches ball in the air before it hits the ground.

Immediate out or does SS have to go to 1B for the force out?

I've never seen that happen, just curious as to what the correct call would be.

 

[MTR]

Thanks MTR, I'll do a mini-hijack with a hypothetical if that is OK. Ball hits base ump in field of play (fair territory) on line drive from batter. Ball ricochets straight up in the air where SS catches ball in the air before it hits the ground.

Immediate out or does SS have to go to 1B for the force out?

I've never seen that happen, just curious as to what the correct call would be.

Live/dead depends on whether the ball passed a fielder. It cannot be caught for an out.

 

[BretMan]

If the batted ball has passed an infielder before hitting the umpire, then the ball remains live. Play on and get what you get.

If the ball hits the umpire before passing a fielder, immediate dead ball. Batter is awarded first base. Any other runners advance only if forced.

In any case, such a batted ball could never be caught for an out. The be caught for an out, a batted ball may not touch anything other than a defensive player. Once it hits an offensive player or an umpire, it is no longer considered to be airbourne or in-flight...same as if it had hit the ground or a fence.

 

[Alan Snedeker]

That is not true of a ball going directly from that bat to any part of the catcher's body or equipment. That would be a deal ball, also.

MTR I just want to make sure I understand something, correct me if I'm wrong:

1. If the ball goes directly off the bat and hits any part of the catchers equipment besides the glove first then it is foul ball regardless the catcher catches the ball before it hits the ground. Call is Foul ball.

2. Ball goes directly off the bat and hits the catchers glove but bounces out and the catcher traps the ball between the legs before it hits the ground. Call Foul Tip, Live ball.

Thanks.

 

[Ajaywill]

MTR I just want to make sure I understand something, correct me if I'm wrong:

1. If the ball goes directly off the bat and hits any part of the catchers equipment besides the glove first then it is foul ball regardless the catcher catches the ball before it hits the ground. Call is Foul ball.

2. Ball goes directly off the bat and hits the catchers glove but bounces out and the catcher traps the ball between the legs before it hits the ground. Call Foul Tip, Live ball.

Thanks.

Close, but not exactly.....

If the batted ball goes sharply and directly to the catcher's glove or hand, and is caught, it is a foul tip and a live ball. So as long as the ball hits the glove or hand first, it can richochet to other places on the catcher and still be caught and considered a foul tip.

Trapping the ball between the legs does not meet the definition of a catch. At this point of #2, there is no call to be made. If the catcher grabs and controls the ball with her hand, foul tip. If she relaxes her legs and allows the ball to drop to the ground, foul ball.

 

[Alan Snedeker]

Close, but not exactly.....

If the batted ball goes sharply and directly to the catcher's glove or hand, and is caught, it is a foul tip and a live ball. So as long as the ball hits the glove or hand first, it can richochet to other places on the catcher and still be caught and considered a foul tip.

Trapping the ball between the legs does not meet the definition of a catch. At this point of #2, there is no call to be made. If the catcher grabs and controls the ball with her hand, foul tip. If she relaxes her legs and allows the ball to drop to the ground, foul ball.

In #2, I assume the catcher would not continue to hold the ball between their legs but actually grab the ball with their glove or hand before it hits the ground. In that case it would be a foul tip and live ball, correct.

 

[joeman39]

Foul tip does base runners tag before trying to advance or advance without having to tag up?