Flex bats - what's the ruling?

[slagothar]

Had an odd scenario arise last night in an 8th grade game.

Opposing team was using DP / Flex; DP was bating second in order. Earlier in the game, they had the Flex run for the DP, then DP re-entered. No problem so far.

Next time around the order, after the 9th batter, the Flex bats and gets on base. Batter 1 then grounds out and Flex goes to second. At this point, our coach notices lineup is off. Since we did not notice the Flex batting prior to the next pitch being thrown, it legitimizes the Flex. But since Flex was not in the hitting lineup, it becomes an unreported substitution that is now legal (right?). Batter 1 completed her at-bat, making batter 2 next up. However, batter 2 is DP, and has already used re-entry. Since the Flex has now been substituted into the game, and can only go in for the DP (who should now have no more re-entries left), how is this resolved? We now have 2 players occupying the same spot in the batting order in the game!

In our game, the ump let the Flex stay at second and let the DP bat; this doesn't seem to be right, but am interested in everyone's thoughts. Of course, if I had been scoring, I would have caught......

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Admission of shame...I'm a fairly new umpire (started last year). I know the rules as well as anyone....except all the substitution stuff. It's really the last piece I've paid attention to and the one I need the most work on. It is the least interesting part of the game, the least intuitive, and most I know hate dealing with it (not an excuse for not knowing the answer here, just facts). Half the coaches (made up stat) don't know the DP/Flex rules, and stuff like this happens more than it should (another reason I really need more work on this) when it's implemented.

 

[Comp]

It's an illegal substitution. Look up the penalty for that. There may be wording about this exact situation under illegal sub or there is a case play for it.

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[texasheat]

Admission of shame...I'm a fairly new umpire (started last year). I know the rules as well as anyone....except all the substitution stuff. It's really the last piece I've paid attention to and the one I need the most work on. It is the least interesting part of the game, the least intuitive, and most I know hate dealing with it (not an excuse for not knowing the answer here, just facts). Half the coaches (made up stat) don't know the DP/Flex rules, and stuff like this happens more than it should (another reason I really need more work on this) when it's implemented.

Thank you for doing what most umps won't do by putting aside your ego and admitting that you don't know the rules. Its refreshing.

 

[slagothar]

It's an illegal substitution. Look up the penalty for that. There may be wording about this exact situation under illegal sub or there is a case play for it.

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Would she be an illegal sub or an unreported sub (+ batting out of order), since she was eligible to re-enter, but only in the #2 position? Had we caught right away (after she completed her at bat), she would have been out and the correct batter (#1) would be up to bat. But since the next batter (#1) completed the at-bat, does that legitimize Flex substitution into game? If so, then batter #1 would have been out of order (batter #3 should've been up if Flex is now legitimately in the game in #2 slot). But, doesn't the defense have the option to accept the outcome of batter #1 at bat (i.e. recorded out) and have the #2 slot come up to bat - with the batter in #2 slot now being on second base?

This is getting confusing.....

 

[Comp]

You cannot legitimize an illegal sub.

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[slagothar]

You cannot legitimize an illegal sub.

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How are they illegal if they have a right to re-enter the game?

 

[mmeece]

How are they illegal if they have a right to re-enter the game?

The flex was illegal in any position other than for the DP.

 

[Strike2]

Batting the Flex in anything other that the DP spot is an illegal player. From 2020 USSSA Rule 5 Sec 7

ILLEGAL PLAYER is a player who enters the line–up without the right to an offensive or defensive position. Examples of an Illegal player(s)...D. Placing the FLEX player in one of the first 11 positions in the batting order for someone other than the DP.

The use of an illegal player is handled as a protest that can be made at anytime, while the player is in the game. A player will not violate the illegal player provision until he/she enters the game and one (1) pitch is thrown. Any action before one pitch is thrown is correctable.

PENALTY: An illegal player violation results in the immediate ejection of the illegal player and the head coach. In addition, the following penalties will apply:

A. If the illegal player has completed a turn at bat and before the next pitch,the illegal player is called out. Any advance by any runner as a result of the illegal player becoming a batter-runner is nullified. Any additional outs recorded on the play stand.

B. If the illegal player is a base runner and is still on base, the illegal player is called out.

C. If the illegal player has made a defensive play and before the next pitch (or the defensive team or the Umpires have left the field), the offensive team has the option of 1) the result of the play or 2) replaying the last pitch.

 

[mmeece]

Important to emphasize in what @Strike2 posted. Illegal player not illegal substitution