College DP / Flex Rule

[CoachJD]

Sometimes I wonder if some college coaches get away with buffalo-ing the umps!

I imagine it happens.

I know for our HS games, I'll sometimes do some completely legal stuff using the DP/Flex with moving people into/out of various defensive positions, and I've never had an umpire actually make me show my work, so to speak.

Had a situation yesterday where I was moving 1B to P, P to the bench, and a girl in the lineup/on the bench (technically not the DP) to 1B. All 3 girls were in the lineup and staying in the game. The Flex was the 2B, who never left the field. The ump just asked about subs, I said no subs just moving players around, and he accepted it without bothering to make sure. And that wasn't even particularly complicated.

I assume most college umps are a little more attentive, but I'm sure that's not always the case.

 

[Carty]

"Can you confirm this scenario? Starting pitcher hits for herself in the lineup. She comes out of the game in inning 4 but still hits. In this case should she be the DP and the new pitcher would have to have been listed as the flex on the lineup?

Is there a way for a player to continue to hit in a game where they are taken out on the defensive side?"

This could be done several ways. Starting pitcher could be in the lineup and not the DP, just moved to the bench. If the new pitcher is batting the she could be subbed anywhere in the first nine. If she isn't, it would have to be Flex. But the game would need to be starting with the DP/Flex and reduced to nine at the plate meeting.

 

[The Man In Blue]

"Can you confirm this scenario? Starting pitcher hits for herself in the lineup. She comes out of the game in inning 4 but still hits. In this case should she be the DP and the new pitcher would have to have been listed as the flex on the lineup?

Is there a way for a player to continue to hit in a game where they are taken out on the defensive side?"

This could be done several ways. Starting pitcher could be in the lineup and not the DP, just moved to the bench. If the new pitcher is batting the she could be subbed anywhere in the first nine. If she isn't, it would have to be Flex. But the game would need to be starting with the DP/Flex and reduced to nine at the plate meeting.

I started to post about a double switch, but that still wouldn't explain the OP.

Just to muddy the waters ... NFHS Baseball did something a few years ago that should have made this easier, but I'm not sure if it did. They now allow you to list the same player as the defensive player AND the DH. This basically allows the coach to "reserve the right" to implement a DH during the game. It is beneficial because baseball has pitch count limits.

 

[Coach Foster]

Sometimes I wonder if some college coaches get away with buffalo-ing the umps!

I have a good friend who was a P5 umpire, now retired.

It was his first trip to Michigan. Hutch approaches him and tries to make illegal changes during the game. He says he knows right away it's illegal and wonders how she's going to handle it. She got in his face "Are you telling me what I can and can't do in my own house?!?!?!" stuff like that. Loses it. He stands his ground.

After the game she comes into the officials room and tells him if he would have let her make those changes he never would have worked at Michigan again and that he did a good job. I guess she pulled that with new officials when they came to UM.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I have a good friend who was a P5 umpire, now retired.

It was his first trip to Michigan. Hutch approaches him and tries to make illegal changes during the game. He says he knows right away it's illegal and wonders how she's going to handle it. She got in his face "Are you telling me what I can and can't do in my own house?!?!?!" stuff like that. Loses it. He stands his ground.

After the game she comes into the officials room and tells him if he would have let her make those changes he never would have worked at Michigan again and that he did a good job. I guess she pulled that with new officials when they came to UM.

I hate coaches like this. They think they are bigger than the game.

That is not your job, coach.

 

[Westwind]

She kinda was bigger than the game, lol!

Whenever I sat close enough to hear her huff, puff, carry on and pontificate I could barely watch the game. She didnt just coach, she performed.

 

[The Man In Blue]

That is an apt description of that type of coach. I know too many of them. It’s not enough to be good at your job, you have to make sure everybody knows it.

 

[The Man In Blue]

OU's published lineup (on FB) has Bahl as the Flex and she is listed in the 10-hole in the game summary lineup along with the other pitchers.

Cydney Sanders shows up in the game summary as the DP in the 3-hole.

Bahl did bat in the 2nd inning in the 8-hole after Brito. She lined out to F4 for the third out. You can watch it on the
ESPN+ game recording at the 22:30 mark.

I have no idea how Gasso managed this. Even stranger, the game summary scorecard has no record of the at-bat.

Finally got around to actually checking this out ... (Damn the ESPN+ interface is clunky.)

I do not have a clue.

Here is the starting lineup from the game feed:

CF Coleman

2b Jennings

1b Sanders

SS Lyons

DP Lee

C Hansen

3b Brito

RF Torres

LF Boone

Flex (Pitcher) Bahl

In the first inning, Bahl is on the field as the pitcher and Torres is on the field in right field.

In the top of the second inning, Lee (the DP) leads off by lining out to the pitcher on one pitch. Hansen then walks and Brito flies out (foul) to F9. Then Bahl comes in to pinch hit for Torres ... ... she lines out toF4.

HOWEVER ... Looking at the line by line on Oklahoma's website, it appears there was a substitution between Bahl and Torres:



It appears Torres was listed as the starting pitcher on the actual lineup and Bahl subbed in ... but I can't explain why Bahl started pitching on the field. Substitutions explain why Bahl left in the 4th after Torres batted (no re-entry left).

I am guessing the starting line-up submitted to the plate did NOT match the one captured for the TV feed. I'm guessing Bahl was NOT the Flex. I'm trying to piece it back together. I'm thinking there is another player that was listed but never saw any action (field or bat)?

But I cannot arrive at how Bahl and Torres could be on the field at the same time and then be subbed for one another in the batting order.

My brain hurts ...

 

[CoachJD]

I am guessing the starting line-up submitted to the plate did NOT match the one captured for the TV feed.

I think this is generally the issue.

The TV feeds seem to list the positions as what we all see at the moment the game starts. Whoever is standing in whatever spot is identified in that position, even if that's not what she's listed as on the lineup card.

This makes some sense for ease of the viewer/identifying players, but it makes me wonder if the coaches give their lineup cards to the production team or if they're just looking at who's out there and doing their own thing.

As for that particular game: Wouldn't that have worked if Bahl was the Flex and Torres was the DP on the lineup card (Lee probably listed as RF, though Torres/Lee switched positions before ever taking the field)? They can both be in the field at the same time, but if Bahl's going to hit, she's subbing in for Torres.

That doesn't explain Bahl leaving the game in the 4th though. If she subs in to hit for the DP, then the next time up the DP reenters to hit for herself, the Flex has never left the game (just the batting order).

 

[Westwind]

I feel vindicated, lol!