do i pull or push?

[cshilt]

Wow, you certainly are more articulate on hitting than your average 15 year old. I'm almost inclined to agree with BM that this is a setup, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

my question is when i throw the bat, do i want to pull the shaft with my bottom/lead hand??? or push with my top hand? or both? and where do i throw my hands to? hands to the ball? i try to keep my hands inside the ball and throw my bat head to the ball.

Hands inside - definitely. I've had numerous conversations with hitting instructor who works with several Olympic players and it is always "hands inside the ball". Regarding push or pull, that isn't a factor in the discussion. If anything I'd say the hands work together. You're getting into the Epstein THT (top hand torque) conversation.

i am buying a whiphit bat and a rope bat soon. are these products comabtible with my combinational swing i use?

my fall ball coach said i was disconnected, and he wants my swing to be like the earth revolves around the sun, with my body as the sun and the bat head being the earth.

thanks!

A whiphit bat is a good tool for staying inside the ball. If you take your hands to the ball with a whiphit bat you'll likely swing around it. It will help you stay connected while swinging as well. The goal is to hit straight line drives off of a tee.

 

[class_of_2012]

hi Mike! thanks so much for your positve posts and for being so nice! i'm so glad you teach the major league swing. i have been learning it for years now and am finally starting to get better. yes i met coach candrea at a clinic earlier and he says the baseball swing is the same as the fastpitch swing. that's what my coach says too, with the exception of some minor differences perhaps for the riseball.

i heard ULL uses a method of hitting where the two hands are not together on the bat. at a clinic where the ULL coach taught, they told us we did not have to go to his station if we did not like hitting that way.

there was also discussion a few months ago on this board that was way over my head, some father asking for advice or drills and apparently it was hijacked and it was too advanced for me to understand. i think it was about details involved in rotational hitting. that is why i was trying to learn about that as well.

yes i am trying to learn as much as i can. my coach says my problem sometimes is i think too much hahaha. "paralysis by analysis" is what he calls it and he probably is right. but i guess that's just how my mind operates. i see him two to four times a week for lessons.

well my dad and i are leaving now for a few clinics this weekend! i will try to check back tonight!

 

[class_of_2012]

Wow, you certainly are more articulate on hitting than your average 15 year old. I'm almost inclined to agree with BM that this is a setup, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

thank you. yes i guess i write well. i am not trying to throw off people. i guess i just come from a well educated family. this is how i normally write. all the terminology, like "pronated", i learned from my coach

Hands inside - definitely. I've had numerous conversations with hitting instructor who works with several Olympic players and it is always "hands inside the ball". Regarding push or pull, that isn't a factor in the discussion. If anything I'd say the hands work together. You're getting into the Epstein THT (top hand torque) conversation.

yeah stuff like THT and CHP (circular hand path--which i read about in a discussion on another board about the medicus bat) i have no idea what they mean.

A whiphit bat is a good tool for staying inside the ball. If you take your hands to the ball with a whiphit bat you'll likely swing around it. It will help you stay connected while swinging as well. The goal is to hit straight line drives off of a tee.

yeah that is why i am researching all of this. i have to pay for the whiphit myself so i need to make sure it is a good value before i buy it. it costs $100. thanks for helping

 

[Wellphyt]

Class of 2012:

Katie Cochran who plays for Arizona State said that she began studying Ted William's swing when she was 11. She keeps Ted's "Science of Hitting" book in her backpack and carries it wherever she goes. Her batting stats are very impressive. I would say you are on the right track.

 

[Slapper23]

i heard ULL uses a method of hitting where the two hands are not together on the bat. at a clinic where the ULL coach taught, they told us we did not have to go to his station if we did not like hitting that way.

Some of the ULL hitters were using the split grip in the CWS last year, but that is NOT taught by Coach Lotief. Unfortunately, you missed out on a great opportunity to learn from him. His team's hitting stats speak for themselves, as does his perennial Top 20 ranking, and oftentimes Top 10 ranking in D1. Coach Lotief is one of the very best hitting people, as well as a great, down to earth person.

Mike

 

[class_of_2012]

yeah i agree practice is good. it's just that what is the point of taking a bad swing and reinforcing it so it gets engrained in muscle memory???? i still have a number of flaws that i find hard to break since i have been doing them for so long. that is why i spend so much time on video analysis and discussing fundamentals with my coach. if i am gonna do it, i want to do it right. as an old baseball guy, my coach is a good mentor and enjoys the teaching aspect. he tells me lots of stories about charlie lau, george brett (both linear in their swings), how his philosophy has evolved over the years, etc. its funny i am his only female student and his only softball student but i think i am benefitting from learning from someone who has done mostly baseball his entire life and not softball. the only thing is he doesn't realize the fastpitch strike zone is more like the chevrolet symbol hahahaha.

thanks wellphyt for your praise. i am a good student and i like learning, analyzing, breaking things down, almost to the point of excess.

mike, thanks for the ull info. they gave us a choice, and i ended up choosing to work with coach james defeo from lsu instead of coach lotief!

 

[tom.guerry]

2012 -

One of the HUGE learning opportunities is to understand how the high level overhand throw and swing relate and to work hard on each one every day.

This is why the "if you can throw you can hit" systems are very good such as the Candrea/Slaught/Enquist/rightview approach, BUT......


but but but, where do you learn a good overhand throw method ? That is even a more complex motion to explain than the MLB swing.

Fortunately, there is very good info available from Nyman at setpro and an entire system accompanying this from Ron Wolforth at athletic pitcher/pitchingcentral.com, including emphasis on so-called "backward chaining/backward shaping" which are a series of pieces/chunks that start from the end of the motion and work backward.

Learning the overhand throw teaches the right start of the arm action for the MLB swing including how this relates to cocking the hips and cocking the hands (points which Williams emphasizes in SCIENCE OF HITTING prior to his "hips lead") and shift the weight,etc.

it is (almost) never too late to work on the throw and understand what you are doing better.

Nyman ebook is described here:

http://www.setpro.com/bootcamp2006/rtfnpurchase.htm

 

[class_of_2012]

thanks tom! wow that book is expensive. but i definitely need to work on my overhand throw too. my velocity is lacking right now. my fall ball coach told me my throw needs to be more of a "ferris wheel" and not a "merry go round"!

 

[tom.guerry]

the ebook info can help the entire team/organization.

take up a collection or convince the coach to buy.

The model includes how to think about both the merrygoround and ferris wheel elements and how they relate.

The wolforth system can be more pricey, but your body can dive right in to the drills while your brain is trying to make "cognitive" sense of the theory.

 

[class_of_2012]

"just like you would hammer a nail into a board. this hammer action is the uncocking of your pronated wrists"

Good luck trying to teach 10-14 yr old girl how to hit while talking about hammering and pronated wrists. My daughter's are 14 and 15 and I think they are both probably more comfortable with a bat than a hammer. Might as well compare hitting to shoeing a horse, or carving a barrel stave for all the frame of reference that your going to impart talking this way.

oh i forgot to mention, my hitting coach teaches all boys baseball, and i am his only female student, so i think he was just used to using the hammer a nail analogy. but i've hammered nails before into wood and it made sense.

oh and he also says his female students in the past (when he had more) more easily learned the pronated/cocked wrist mechanics than the boys. he says girls were more willing to learn and try, whereas boys just said stuff like "i know" and did whatever they wanted to.