Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Register Log in

DD's opening front shoulder.

Nov 16, 2017
145
28
If we are breaking it down in the physical sense. It would be ‘bat’ speed is when the bat is accelerating. That’s launch or commitment right? That would not be what Rendon is doing. He is holding back the barrel out of plane to build the speed of the bat through ‘angular momentum’ correct? When the barrel gets released would be the bat speed part right? Because the ‘bat’ is actually accelerating right?

So at least we got this far; you have admitted that ‘early’ bat speed takes longer in space. But I will admit creates more force. So the question I pose to you is do you want to create the most speed and be able to hit the ball the hardest or create less speed and hit the ball hard more often? Remember the mlb average in game bat speed is a very attainable 69 mph.

I think this should be the new equation based on our new found understanding of the pros and cons of early and ‘into’ bat speed. What do you think?

Side note: It really makes sense why AJ won the HR derby with ease doesn’t it?
Don't forget it is the amazing eye sight of Barry that made him the hitter he was. Sure he had great mechanics, mechanics that could have been achieved from 10 different styles. But...... what made him special was the ability due to crazy good eye site, pick up the pitch early, identifying spin and all the other possible variables and know (predict) the pitch after the first 15ft that the pitch was going to be a x. Teaching batters to identify spin and therefore pitch location and therefore bat path is the ultimate accomplishment. The batters that can do this, become HOFs, regardless of their "style" of hitting. The greatest are the one who can predict the future. At least better than the rest.

I am not sure how you teach this. As an instructor you get the player to make the "right" moves. At some point it is up to God and them.
 
Jan 6, 2009
2,671
63
Chehalis, Wa
Don't forget it is the amazing eye sight of Barry that made him the hitter he was. Sure he had great mechanics, mechanics that could have been achieved from 10 different styles. But...... what made him special was the ability due to crazy good eye site, pick up the pitch early, identifying spin and all the other possible variables and know (predict) the pitch after the first 15ft that the pitch was going to be a x. Teaching batters to identify spin and therefore pitch location and therefore bat path is the ultimate accomplishment. The batters that can do this, become HOFs, regardless of their "style" of hitting. The greatest are the one who can predict the future. At least better than the rest.

I am not sure how you teach this. As an instructor you get the player to make the "right" moves. At some point it is up to God and them.
You are predicting the future.
 
Jul 29, 2013
338
28
Is this her swing or a drill?

If it's her swing then she has some reverse C at contact and she is hitting on her leg, The base is way to narrow at contact.
The first swing is snf, afterward, it's her swing. What she's doing is getting her foot down early because the pitch is getting on her and she's adjusting her timing. I've also seen her stride really far when she's early/ the pitch is slow. She's learned how to get rearward front hip thrust even standing on top of the front leg; launches the swing by pushing against that leg.
 
Jul 29, 2013
338
28
ARGGHHHHHH!! I give up..again...for real this time I swear :LOL:

If somebody else understands what I am saying, even if you don't agree, please explain it to him since I obviously haven't been able to.
He doesn't want to or is incapable of understanding. Bottom line is that he'll never understand. He's already said he's listening to HOFers because they must know what they're doing in spite of visual evidence to the contrary.
I'm here chuckling because he asked for a video of a kid I've coached and then says he won't comment on another member based on insufficient data. Just another excuse because his explanations fall way short of backing his theory.
 
Jun 8, 2016
4,364
113
If we are breaking it down in the physical sense. It would be ‘bat’ speed is when the bat is accelerating. That’s launch or commitment right? That would not be what Rendon is doing. He is holding back the barrel out of plane to build the speed of the bat through ‘angular momentum’ correct? When the barrel gets released would be the bat speed part right? Because the ‘bat’ is actually accelerating right?

So at least we got this far; you have admitted that ‘early’ bat speed takes longer in space. But I will admit creates more force. So the question I pose to you is do you want to create the most speed and be able to hit the ball the hardest or create less speed and hit the ball hard more often? Remember the mlb average in game bat speed is a very attainable 69 mph.

I think this should be the new equation based on our new found understanding of the pros and cons of early and ‘into’ bat speed. What do you think?

Side note: It really makes sense why AJ won the HR derby with ease doesn’t it?
In all good hitters I see the barrel accelerating at launch, including Rendon. I also want a barrel path which resembles this:



You can call that on plane early, on plane late or bobbycock..don't really care. Of course my DD could have this bat path and still not be able to hit a pitcher with a 100MPH fastball and a 85 MPH CU ..you know why? Because her 75 lb body wouldn't be able to generate enough bat speed throughout this path, including at launch, to give her enough time to be able to accurately read the pitch speed/location.
 
Last edited:
Jul 29, 2013
338
28
If we are breaking it down in the physical sense. It would be ‘bat’ speed is when the bat is accelerating. That’s launch or commitment right? That would not be what Rendon is doing. He is holding back the barrel out of plane to build the speed of the bat through ‘angular momentum’ correct? When the barrel gets released would be the bat speed part right? Because the ‘bat’ is actually accelerating right?

So at least we got this far; you have admitted that ‘early’ bat speed takes longer in space. But I will admit creates more force. So the question I pose to you is do you want to create the most speed and be able to hit the ball the hardest or create less speed and hit the ball hard more often? Remember the mlb average in game bat speed is a very attainable 69 mph.

I think this should be the new equation based on our new found understanding of the pros and cons of early and ‘into’ bat speed. What do you think?

Side note: It really makes sense why AJ won the HR derby with ease doesn’t it?
Speed is strictly distance over time; no acceleration.
If Rendon is holding the bat still, the speed he starts from is zero.
Look up angular momentum; you don't build speed through angular momentum. It is speed without acceleration in the inertial reference frame. The force is a false force and is only recognized in the non inertial reference frame.
Hit the ball hard or more often? That's a false choice. Get on plane early and hit hard, more often!
 
Oct 13, 2014
1,850
63
South Cali
In all good hitters I see the barrel accelerating at launch, including Rendon. I also want a barrel path which resembles this:



You can call that on plane early, on plane late or bobbycock..don't really care. Of course my DD could have this bat path and still not be able to hit a pitcher with a 100MPH fastball and a 85 MPH CU ..you know why? Because her 75 lb body wouldn't be able to generate enough bat speed throughout this path, including at launch, to give her enough time to be able to accurately read the pitch speed/location.

Yes. On an outside pitch the barrel will be on plane ‘ longer’ due to the early release. Post a Miggy swing on the inside. Much different release, more steep. More direct. Not ‘on plane with the barrel very long, not as much ‘deep’ barrel speed because the arc is smaller and starts later because of the later release.
 
Jun 8, 2016
4,364
113
Yes. On an outside pitch the barrel will be on plane ‘ longer’ due to the early release. Post a Miggy swing on the inside. Much different release, more steep. More direct. Not ‘on plane with the barrel very long, not as much ‘deep’ barrel speed because the arc is smaller and starts later because of the later release.
Look at the catcher, unless he was setting up way outside that wasn't an outside pitch. Anyway I guess it appeared that way the way I wrote it, but I never said barrel paths are going to be the same regardless of pitch location...obviously. This isn't the best view for barrel path but whatever
 
Oct 13, 2014
1,850
63
South Cali
Speed is strictly distance over time; no acceleration.
If Rendon is holding the bat still, the speed he starts from is zero.
Look up angular momentum; you don't build speed through angular momentum. It is speed without acceleration in the inertial reference frame. The force is a false force and is only recognized in the non inertial reference frame.
Hit the ball hard or more often? That's a false choice. Get on plane early and hit hard, more often!
Acceleration is speed over time. That’s the equation. It’s Mass x Acceleration. The barrel is nothing until it is accelerated. The way it’s accelerated is the answer. Do you want max speed and a longer time to impact or acceleration with a speed component with a shorter route and shorter to contact time? The pros all say they want to be ‘short to the ball’ so I guess we have our answer to our question. Right?

The barrel path you speak of is fast. But not adjustable. You have said you don’t need adjustability because you have a fast barrel. Lets leave it at that. I’ll agree to disagree. I think hitting the ball at the 18gold level and up is not that simple.

Do you want to max out your speed every swing? Or do you want to have conservation of energy to be shorter to the target in a variabled environment with late moving targets and changes of speeds of those targets?

When you release the barrel behind you or created max speed early you have spent all your energy in the swing earlier with a longer route to the ball within a variabled environment. Doesn’t equate.

If it were a boxing match. The equivalent would be throwing haymakers every punch and limiting your defense and counter punching opportunities. As opposed to sticking and moving and landing straight rights and jabs all night. Racking up the ‘hits’ and the points. You might land some haymakers and have a knock down or 2. But you leave yourself susceptible to counters and big punches, all night long which usually ends with the ‘big puncher’ on the floor because of his aggressive tendencies. Mayweather and Jones Jr. will be/are HOFers because of this.
 
Oct 13, 2014
1,850
63
South Cali
Bobby,

But if you want truth. Put your student up against a consistently good pro on video. If they match, great. But they won’t match. That has always been and will always will be the gold standard. No matter what I or you say. Let the video be your truth. If your goal is this. Your students will be fine.


 
Last edited:
Top