DD at a lesson

[Bobby Shirer]

Try this explanation:
Turn the barrel is a pronation/supination movement. The bat is fixed at a 90 degree angle to the forearm and the forearm rotates. The range of motion is more than 180 degrees.
Knob to ball is a radial/ulnar (wrist) deviation movement. The bat starts with the wrist in ulnar deviation and transitions to radial deviation. 40 degrees of ulnar deviation and 20 degrees of ulnar deviation = 65 degrees total ROM.

Any "transition" you're seeing in the Chas Pippett video is due to the fact that he maxed the range of movement for pronation/supination and radial deviation happened. He also extended his back arm and it passed up the front arm so the barrel turned out of the hitting zone.

Turn the barrel develops crazy bat speed early in the swing (the blur behind the batter) and adjustments can be made via extension/radial deviation. TTB helps a hitter get the bat under their hands results in better launch angles. It also feel effortless. Any rotation of the body is quickly translated to the rotation of the bat.

Wrist deviation swings are easy to teach but timing becomes an issue because the barrel is slow to the hitting zone so it must be started early and control is sacrificed. The bat reaches top speed at arm extension and then it quickly exits the hitting zone (dead pull hitter, no power to opposite field if able to hit there at all) It's also the favorite movement of folks that hit down on the ball (chopping wood) After wrist deviation ROM is spent, rolling the wrists is the next movement.

IMHO

 

[Work=wins]

Come on. How can you say he has early bat speed that happens late? Wth?
And I sincerely asked a question and your answer has me befuddled.
I posted pictures if radial/ulnar deviation and supination/pronation. Are you referring to these moves as pictured or do you have a different understanding? Please be brief as in "yes, I agree," or "no, I have a different definition."

The example I gave you was Tre hitting an inside pitch, which is hit more out front. Hence the later release. When you release into the ball, you are puting all available speed into it without losing control. If the ball was outside the release would be sooner but much deeper. See how that works? The release is adjustable. Like Springer does here. Look when the barrel drops. That’s release





Now say you’re looking for a heater at the ribs, but you get something away at a lesser speed. Could we delay our release and make the adjustment physically? Since the release is adjustable, we can.

But if we are in the same situation and our release is predicated on how deep the ball gets and how ‘deep’ we launch/release the barrel from, not on pitch speed or location, how does one adjust when you hit the fastball deep and you hit the change up deep? I think what happens is we become a guess hitter... since we don’t have the scouting reports JD has. How will we educate ourselves to make the right guess? De Rosa asked JD that very question ya know. He admittedly said, ‘I guess’. Derosa Is smarter than most.

Added:

 

[james27503]

The example I gave you was Tre hitting an inside pitch, which is hit more out front. Hence the later release. When you release into the ball, you are puting all available speed into it without losing control. If the ball was outside the release would be sooner but much deeper. See how that works? The release is adjustable. Like Springer does here. Look when the barrel drops. That’s release





Now say you’re looking for a heater at the ribs, but you get something away at a lesser speed. Could we delay our release and make the adjustment physically? Since the release is adjustable, we can.

But if we are in the same situation and our release is predicated on how deep the ball gets and how ‘deep’ we launch/release the barrel from, not on pitch speed or location, how does one adjust when you hit the fastball deep and you hit the change up deep? I think what happens is we become a guess hitter... since we don’t have the scouting reports JD has. How will we educate ourselves to make the right guess? De Rosa asked JD that very question ya know. He admittedly said, ‘I guess’. Derosa Is smarter than most.

Actually Derosa said "so you are up there guessing a lot, .... educated guesses", Donaldson replied "some what" . Most major league batters sit a specific pitch anyway. As Donaldson says he uses his hands to foul off pitches in emergency situations. So his approach is a bit more complicated than you are presenting it. He is sitting a pitch and ready to destroy it when he gets it. If he gets to 2 strikes he will do whatever to foul off anything in the zone to keep the at bat alive until he can get the pitch he is looking for. So to him a more handsy swing may get the bat on the ball more but it will not produce the results that his normal swing will.

 

[Work=wins]

Actually Derosa said "so you are up there guessing a lot, .... educated guesses", Donaldson replied "some what" . Most major league batters sit a specific pitch anyway. As Donaldson says he uses his hands to foul off pitches in emergency situations. So his approach is a bit more complicated than you are presenting it. He is sitting a pitch and ready to destroy it when he gets it. If he gets to 2 strikes he will do whatever to foul off anything in the zone to keep the at bat alive until he can get the pitch he is looking for. So to him a more handsy swing may get the bat on the ball more but it will not produce the results that his normal swing will.

Jo

Actually Derosa said "so you are up there guessing a lot, .... educated guesses", Donaldson replied "some what" . Most major league batters sit a specific pitch anyway. As Donaldson says he uses his hands to foul off pitches in emergency situations. So his approach is a bit more complicated than you are presenting it. He is sitting a pitch and ready to destroy it when he gets it. If he gets to 2 strikes he will do whatever to foul off anything in the zone to keep the at bat alive until he can get the pitch he is looking for. So to him a more handsy swing may get the bat on the ball more but it will not produce the results that his normal swing will.
[/

‘ it’s not for power’ .. someone has been dooped. Or maybe a retraction? Nah, he never claimed that. He said his scap retract was for power. Josh D turns the barrel to plane. Not for power. The only guy I know that TTB for power is TM.

 

[Work=wins]

Actually Derosa said "so you are up there guessing a lot, .... educated guesses", Donaldson replied "some what" . Most major league batters sit a specific pitch anyway. As Donaldson says he uses his hands to foul off pitches in emergency situations. So his approach is a bit more complicated than you are presenting it. He is sitting a pitch and ready to destroy it when he gets it. If he gets to 2 strikes he will do whatever to foul off anything in the zone to keep the at bat alive until he can get the pitch he is looking for. So to him a more handsy swing may get the bat on the ball more but it will not produce the results that his normal swing will.

Jo

Actually Derosa said "so you are up there guessing a lot, .... educated guesses", Donaldson replied "some what" . Most major league batters sit a specific pitch anyway. As Donaldson says he uses his hands to foul off pitches in emergency situations. So his approach is a bit more complicated than you are presenting it. He is sitting a pitch and ready to destroy it when he gets it. If he gets to 2 strikes he will do whatever to foul off anything in the zone to keep the at bat alive until he can get the pitch he is looking for. So to him a more handsy swing may get the bat on the ball more but it will not produce the results that his normal swing will.

Josh has since retracted his first views. His ‘Turn the barrel’ is not for speed’ but for planing. So maybe he has evolved and learned that an early release of the barrel isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.





I think we can see that his barrel picks up speed after the initial turn of the barrel.

 

[Work=wins]

Jo

‘ it’s not for power’ .. someone has been dooped. Or maybe a retraction? Nah, he never claimed that. He said his scap retract was for power. Josh D turns the barrel to plane. Not for power. The only guy I know that TTB for power is TM.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

‘ it’s not for power’ .. someone has been dooped. Or maybe a retraction? Nah, he never claimed that. He said his scap retract was for power. Josh D turns the barrel to plane. Not for power. The only guy I know that TTB for power is TM.

Obviously you never understood what Josh's technique was so you falsely claim he's made a retraction.
He's saying that TTB is for getting in plane and he's always said that.
TTB is early barrel release. it specifically is getting the bat into the zone early and deep. He's not trying to hit it out front. He is not holding the release of the barrel.
Have you personally tried or taught TTB? If you have, you'd understand.
How can you possibly see his bat pick up speed after the initial barrel turn when that bat is moving to around 90mph in 1/4 of a second.
Here's a TTB blur for you to ponder.
No....TTB isn't for power.....???? Notice the awesome scap retraction.

 

[Work=wins]

Obviously you never understood what Josh's technique was so you falsely claim he's made a retraction.
He's saying that TTB is for getting in plane and he's always said that.
TTB is early barrel release. it specifically is getting the bat into the zone early and deep. He's not trying to hit it out front. He is not holding the release of the barrel.
Have you personally tried or taught TTB? If you have, you'd understand.
How can you possibly see his bat pick up speed after the initial barrel turn when that bat is moving to around 90mph in 1/4 of a second.
Here's a TTB blur for you to ponder.
No....TTB isn't for power.....???? Notice the awesome scap retraction.View attachment 15391View attachment 15392View attachment 15393View attachment 15394View attachment 15395

Bobby,

I have been where you are. I have felt the same way about TTB, believe it or not. But it doesn’t scale.

The Altuve clip above is where the power should be coming from. The rotation of the swing. He’s pound for pound the best hitter in the game. The most consistent and the smallest guy on any pro diamond.He doesn’t turn the barrel. Heck he barely has any arm action as well.

If I were you I would listen to him. Josh D just told you it’s not for power. What part of that don’t you understand? It’s a planing mechanic exclusively. The speed and power comes from the core stretch and rotation but is very elusive because you must be balanced FYB in a specific sequence that is synced.

The weight shift pulls the core, the core pulls the arms, the arms pull the hands, the hands whip the barrel. It’s a accel-decel-accel sequence that powers the swing.

Notice how the hips only rotate so far then stop, but the core then rotates farther but then stops, but then the arms/hands come off that rotation but only go so far, then the hands then the bat. Kinetic chain. Josh D believes this as well. His swing matches it. HE DOES NOT TURN THE BARREL FOR POWER.



I don’t mind debating this further. But please have more evidence than your opinion. What I am telling you matches video and what these guys say they do correct? What you are saying matches no great hitter I know.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Bobby,

I have been where you are. I have felt the same way about TTB, believe it or not. But it doesn’t scale.

The Altuve clip above is where the power should be coming from. The rotation of the swing. He’s pound for pound the best hitter in the game. The most consistent and the smallest guy on any pro diamond.He doesn’t turn the barrel. Heck he barely has any arm action as well.

If I were you I would listen to him. Josh D just told you it’s not for power. What part of that don’t you understand? It’s a planing mechanic exclusively. The speed and power comes from the core stretch and rotation but is very elusive because you must be balanced FYB in a specific sequence that is synced.

The weight shift pulls the core, the core pulls the arms, the arms pull the hands, the hands whip the barrel. It’s a accel-decel-accel sequence that powers the swing.

Notice how the hips only rotate so far then stop, but the core then rotates farther but then stops, but then the arms/hands come off that rotation but only go so far, then the hands then the bat. Kinetic chain. Josh D believes this as well. His swing matches it. HE DOES NOT TURN THE BARREL FOR POWER.



I don’t mind debating this further. But please have more evidence than your opinion. What I am telling you matches video and what these guys say they do correct? What you are saying matches no great hitter I know.

Jose Altuve 1000fps Baseball Swing Slow Motion Hitting Mechanics on Make a GIF

_premium

makeagif.com

 

[james27503]

Bobby,

I have been where you are. I have felt the same way about TTB, believe it or not. But it doesn’t scale.

The Altuve clip above is where the power should be coming from. The rotation of the swing. He’s pound for pound the best hitter in the game. The most consistent and the smallest guy on any pro diamond.He doesn’t turn the barrel. Heck he barely has any arm action as well.

If I were you I would listen to him. Josh D just told you it’s not for power. What part of that don’t you understand? It’s a planing mechanic exclusively. The speed and power comes from the core stretch and rotation but is very elusive because you must be balanced FYB in a specific sequence that is synced.

The weight shift pulls the core, the core pulls the arms, the arms pull the hands, the hands whip the barrel. It’s a accel-decel-accel sequence that powers the swing.

Notice how the hips only rotate so far then stop, but the core then rotates farther but then stops, but then the arms/hands come off that rotation but only go so far, then the hands then the bat. Kinetic chain. Josh D believes this as well. His swing matches it. HE DOES NOT TURN THE BARREL FOR POWER.



I don’t mind debating this further. But please have more evidence than your opinion. What I am telling you matches video and what these guys say they do correct? What you are saying matches no great hitter I know.

W=w do you notice that in Altuve's swing that his lead arm is already up above the plane on his move out?. Altuve is an interesting study in that he already has his lead arm up, chin into front shoulder, into his gather. His rear elbow hardly if ever gets to 90/0 degrees. The traditional move has the lead elbow pointing down. TTB is more of a clear visual move when the lead arm has to work up and the rear elbow works down. This has to occur for players who have a traditional elbow location. You will see a bigger turn the barrel look on people like Donaldson because at gather his rear elbow is WAY up and front elbow way down.

Altuve has already effectively preturned the barrel. This might be a good solution for some of my players who just can't seem to grasp getting their front elbow up. I might try this with them.