Bi - Polar?

[cshilt]

Yes, I have done this, many times, thats where I get the --I don't want to do that, because I may fail-- so we don't do anything that has any sense of good vs bad involved. Like a percentage, how many pitches does it take to hit your spots, a competition game, etc, She will not do anything like that. In reality, it doesn't matter, she's just one bad pitch away from a mental breakdown.

This might indicate a perfectionist, except that a perfectionist will simply fail to try, not throw a tantrum if she fails.

I may also note, that when we have these conversations and I agree that she doesn't have to do something she doesn't want to, that temporarily perks her back up. It's like a control battle going between us.

I've even made her write down everything that bothers her class and bring it back to class, because when I ask in class she just screams she doesn't know. The note she brought back just said she didn't like to fail.

This child is good and well practiced at controlling things; her parents, teachers, and you. Of all the child behavioral problems, her pattern mostly resembles Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD). Give the following a read and see if it rings true...

Oppositional Defiant Disorder

 

[Jojo]

This might indicate a perfectionist, except that a perfectionist will simply fail to try, not throw a tantrum if she fails.

This child is good and well practiced at controlling things; her parents, teachers, and you. Of all the child behavioral problems, her pattern mostly resembles Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD). Give the following a read and see if it rings true...

Oppositional Defiant Disorder

I don't think it's ODD, her parents are always positive, constantly reinforcing she is doing well to ward off the tantrum for as long as possible.
It also doesn't explain the extremity of the mood shift.

I don't feel her fear of failure is the underlying culprit. I think she's using it as an excuse. Someone may have told her that once or explained her actions that way to her and she picked up on it, because it's what she always answers with.
Failure most of the time isn't even the issue sometimes. I can just say, "Okay lets do a few drills to straighten out your backswing", and it's like I just told her "You are the most horrible pitcher I have ever seen, how can you even stand yourself?"
It catches me off guard most of the time, because her mood is overly good, I'm thinking "Wow she's doing so good, lets try and work on something and maybe she won't notice were doing it". Or I'll say, "Hey, try this for grins" and Bam! Mr. Hyde arrives!@

 

[Ken Krause]

I'm with Cannonball. It may seem harsh but you may need to cut her loose. Her issues may be more than you are qualified to handle.

As an instructor, you can only teach those who are willing to change. It doesn't sound like she is.

I've had kids like that before. Not to this extreme, but certainly those who were resistant to changing. What I tell them is "You are certainly welcome to pitch/hit/etc. any way you want. But if you want to do it the way you do now, you don't need me to do that. You already know how to do what you already do. No sense wasting your time, my time or your parents' money. If you want to get better, though, you need to do what I tell you to do. The decision is yours."

I've lost a couple that way, but I'm ok with that. Because it's not a BS speech -- it's the truth.

I also had one girl for a couple of years who had a different deal but same results. I had coached her older sister, who was great to work with and always worked hard. Younger sister, though, was another story. I was never sure who was looking at the clock more during her lessons -- her or me. She seemed like a good athlete as a 10 and 11 year old, but I could never get her to put in the effort to develop any speed. She'd just sort of lounge through the drills, wouldn't try to go faster, wouldn't try to throw hard. She'd show up seeming happy and energetic, but as soon as we started she would complain that her stomach hurt or her knee was sore or would list some other ailment. I finally took her father aside and said, "She doesn't seem to be getting any better, or even want to be here. It's up to you but I really don't think either this is right for her or I am a good fit for her." He talked to her, she said she wanted to do it, but the behavior persisted. After another half year he finally figured out that no matter what she said she didn't want to do it and pulled her out. I was never so happy to lose a student.

For my part I don't need them to have a boatload of talent. I've worked with some kids who were far from great athletes and helped them become successful. But there's nothing I can do for the unwilling. If she's unwilling, you can't either.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

But THIS kid! Every time she shows up for lessons, she's on top of the world, like she's literally on some high. She's bouncy and tells silly jokes and stories and talks real fast.

Is she a 6th or 7th grader?

That's when the hormones tend to hit and I have seen girls get really thrown by this for a year or so. I have seen very level-headed 5th graders turn into very emotional 6th graders.

Things could also happen to her as she gets tired, which again is pretty normal.

 

[Jojo]

I've had kids like that before. Not to this extreme, but certainly those who were resistant to changing. What I tell them is "You are certainly welcome to pitch/hit/etc. any way you want. But if you want to do it the way you do now, you don't need me to do that. You already know how to do what you already do. No sense wasting your time, my time or your parents' money. If you want to get better, though, you need to do what I tell you to do. The decision is yours."

I've lost a couple that way, but I'm ok with that. Because it's not a BS speech -- it's the truth.

I also had one girl for a couple of years who had a different deal but same results. I had coached her older sister, who was great to work with and always worked hard. Younger sister, though, was another story. I was never sure who was looking at the clock more during her lessons -- her or me. She seemed like a good athlete as a 10 and 11 year old, but I could never get her to put in the effort to develop any speed. She'd just sort of lounge through the drills, wouldn't try to go faster, wouldn't try to throw hard. She'd show up seeming happy and energetic, but as soon as we started she would complain that her stomach hurt or her knee was sore or would list some other ailment. I finally took her father aside and said, "She doesn't seem to be getting any better, or even want to be here. It's up to you but I really don't think either this is right for her or I am a good fit for her." He talked to her, she said she wanted to do it, but the behavior persisted. After another half year he finally figured out that no matter what she said she didn't want to do it and pulled her out. I was never so happy to lose a student.

I've had a few of those. ; )

This is kid is a great athlete. Somehow during the course of the lesson pre-mood shift and even after mood shift she is picking things up. I think she really wants to learn, then the mood shift happens and it frustrates her, so there is this combination of anger and crying (the crying is getting better, she gets praised for going the entire class with no tears) when it seems like her brain(attitude) is shutting down, but somewhere inside of her she's fighting to stay in control. When she runs off, I think she has finally lost control.
I'm exhausted after a lesson with her, just working with her going through the high and low, I cannot imagine how she feels, I would be a wreck if I actually went through mood swings that severe.
She is progressing, but it is holding her back. I fear for when she turns 12 & 13!
I don't know if it's mental, or how she was raised.
Here is another weird thing with her I've tried. I tried offering a treat. "If you go through the whole class without crying I'll give you a piece of gum" Most kids it's like giving them a front row pass to a Jonus Brothers concert! Her, no way --that could trigger the crash. It has to be praise only with her, dangle a carrot and she'll shred it!

I'm also VERY patient and love challenges --my competitive instinct--.
If I take one of those students with very little talent if none at all and get them in a league game pitching strkes and jumping for joy because they just struck out 5 batters and K'd the last one on a change It makes my day.
With this kid, I keep seeing this good sweet kid that has a demon trapped inside of her and I want to help her as much as I can before I give up on her.

 

[Jojo]

Is she a 6th or 7th grader?

That's when the hormones tend to hit and I have seen girls get really thrown by this for a year or so. I have seen very level-headed 5th graders turn into very emotional 6th graders.

Things could also happen to her as she gets tired, which again is pretty normal.

She's in the 6th grade, but I've had her since the 5th and it was worse then, we've made a lot of progress over the year, but still have a lot to go and oh my if her hormones start to kick in!

I don't think that is it, her private is just 30 minutes, and she's athletic.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

She's in the 6th grade, but I've had her since the 5th and it was worse then, we've made a lot of progress over the year, but still have a lot to go and oh my if her hormones start to kick in!

I don't think that is it, her private is just 30 minutes, and she's athletic.

Based on some other things I've read, some of this has to do with parenting. She has to learn that some things aren't acceptable. If the parents don't get this and won't back you up, cut her loose because there is no point.

 

[Jojo]

Based on some other things I've read, some of this has to do with parenting. She has to learn that some things aren't acceptable. If the parents don't get this and won't back you up, cut her loose because there is no point.

I agree, the parents are not helping her. I don't like it when I have to ask them to help me prevent her from running off. I shouldn't have to parent the parent.
I've done a little reading on Bi-polar, not sure still if it's what she has, and still don't know anyone that has dealt with it, other than my husband who has an employee with it who even on her meds, makes him flee whenever he runs into her, and the other student I had who was not on medication, who to me was just like any other spoiled child, in her case I think it was the parents excuse as to why she threw tantrums.
what I read suggested talking to them a lot. So I'm going to spend a lot of time talking to her and HER parents in class. I'm not going to let her pitch while in that state, we'll just talk about pitching. I'll see how long that goes before they make some changes one way or the other, hopefully to her benefit.

 

[jinjet95]

From what I've read about Bi-polar disease, the mood shifts are extreme highs and lows over days. It's not situational. She may very well have another type of disorder. It's hard to tell without talking to the parents. If they know she has a special need and are not telling you, they're doing both you and her a disservice. I've seen kids that behave like this when their parents are around, but are totally different kids without them. I would try talking to the parents to rule out some behavioral, mental, or learning disorder first. If there is a know issue, you may be able to educate yourself on how best to handle her. I can't believe it's gone on this long without the parents giving you some kind of feedback. Then I might try asking the parents to drop her off and remain absent for the lesson to see if that takes care of some of the issue.

 

[cshilt]

I'm also VERY patient and love challenges --my competitive instinct--.
If I take one of those students with very little talent if none at all and get them in a league game pitching strkes and jumping for joy because they just struck out 5 batters and K'd the last one on a change It makes my day.
With this kid, I keep seeing this good sweet kid that has a demon trapped inside of her and I want to help her as much as I can before I give up on her.

That attitude is admirable, but may not help this kid in the long term. Placating and cajoling her may help you get through a lesson, but when she is 18 yo a college coach won't touch her. The more you treat her differently than your other students the longer it will take her to realize her behavior is holding her back. Talk to the child, talk to the parents, but don't let it continue. Work out a plan for improvement, stick to it, and if you have to, part ways.