Bat Path

[Shawn]

A great line told to me today was, "Finding your deceleration tells you where you accelerate." It is attributed to Tony Baldwin of U of Georgia.

As much as we want engine, we need brakes just as much. Otherwise it's just drag.

Funny just recently learned that someone is teaching deceleration as backwards chaining, in order to teach when to accelerate.

I’ve also taught a follow through point to end, in order to stop a never ending follow through.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Okay, I will give it a try.........

First I need to make sure I have a general idea of your beliefs. Please see below and add or remove anything you would like to.

So you went through the slack removal process and you are in your hitting position/launch position (very important position) you are wound up so to speak lots of tension and your first reaction is to rotate the leg/hip to get things going, you need to use that tension to generate force right..... So it starts pulling on the torso or middle of the body, creating tension from left hip to right shoulder, dragging it along (very briefly). As the front leg starts to push back rotation is accelerated and the tension that was created between the upper and lower body can be compressed to accelerate even faster F=m*a???

Is this a fair assessment of your beliefs? I am just going off of your post #859. I just need to know your thoughts so I can try to highlight the differences and follow back up with what I believe is a more efficient way of swinging.

change this word to "contracted." Muscles don't compress, they get stretched and they contract.
And when they're briefly stretched, the muscles contract with more force. SSC.
And the torso is dragged along until contact. Sometimes longer.

But I could be wrong.
All this seems like a lot of effort to move a stick that weighs a little more than a pound and a half.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Funny just recently learned that someone is teaching deceleration as backwards chaining, in order to teach when to accelerate.

I’ve also taught a follow through point to end, in order to stop a never ending follow through.

Whatever happened to accelerating through the ball?

 

[Shawn]

Whatever happened to accelerating through the ball?

Ever watched Freddie Freeman? A short follow through doesn’t seem to hurt him.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Ever watched Freddie Freeman? A short follow through doesn’t seem to hurt him.

Realistically, if all the energy is transfered to the ball and there is no extra, the hitter would be stopped completely and the ball move with all the energy. The ball doesn't care what you do after it leaves.

 

[Work=wins]

Everything has stopped rotating or transferring. Just sayin.

 

[Bonesaw]

Everything has stopped rotating or transferring. Just sayin.

View attachment 18117

Why does piazza' s bat hit him in the back so hard?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

I am going to post my reply since I already got it worked up before you had a chance to answer my last question to you. I figure it may spark some good discussion either way since it states my believes regardless of yours. So there is really no need to answer my questions concerning your beliefs if you don't want to.





Most amateur swings are focused on compression (the concentric load). The issue with Concentric loading vs Eccentric loading is that Concentric loading isn’t nearly as efficient as Eccentric and not as stable either, not to forget that it produces less force overall also. Before I get ahead of myself I'm not saying that compression isn't involved but it is typically the main focus in the swing and IMO it should be the other way around. I can understand why though, you have removed all the slack and your body is wound up/tension-ed up it feels good to just compress it all together but again it isn't the most efficient or stable way. My beliefs are the following.

As the hitter gets into the hitting position/launch position part of the body is tension-ed up (The Fascial Lines). Notice how the front shoulder works down and in during the forward move (typically by striding). IMO that is reciprocal movement to counter the pelvis moving forward in a linear fashion. That movement allows tension to be created across the front of the body from the front hip to the rear shoulder and across their back from the left shoulder and back to the rear hip. The spine serves as the anchor point for this tension and the hands/arms can probably be considered an anchor point as well. So once this is complete the engine is ready to go.

During that movement some slack may have been developed across the front side, from the left shoulder to the rear hip (I find that the best hitters don’t have much if any). When the time comes to step on the gas. The middle starts to go/fire using the developed tension across the body leveraging the SSC that were established from the loading. As the compressing starts the slack, if any, is being removed across the body from the left shoulder down to the rear hip. As the engine keeps compressing, the tension across the body increases and starts pulling on the pelvis. The pelvis in return is pulling on the rear leg/foot. If the rear leg/foot are acting as anchors, which IMO they should be, the tension across the body continues to increase. This tension is the braking system in action. There is two ways to create this anchor 1.) holding the ground 2.) Scissoring……… This tension is what creates stability in the swing much like a Tensegrity model, compression and tension working in unison. At impact or just before impact you want it to be as tight as a guitar string and in return the body will be unbelievably stable like a brick wall. The braking allows for more force to actually be transferred into the bat and compressing the ball much better which is the goal. Think of it as a Force Couple maybe????? (I am not sure if I am understanding Force Couple correctly though and if it makes any sense here. I am hoping you or Patar may be able to help me out with my understanding of that).

The issue with firing the hips is that tension is never developed because it produces slack and not tension in the swing nor is it as controllable are nearly as efficient as it can be.

I will use the “HLP” for instance. I believe that theory is very close but the issue is the rear leg driver. It introduces slack into the system because of the way the rear leg is used. So the counter they came up with is????? You may have guessed it “Lateral Tilt”. The lateral tilt allows tension to be created in the upper body but at the cost of direction IMO.
Which is why you so many of their hitters head fly backwards IMO. They are trying to develop that tension but they have a lot of slack to remove first.

The spinal engine (moving from the middle) keeps direction in the middle of the field where it should be IMO.


Fire away with the questions LOL...... Just remember I am not a biomechanics expert just a dad trying to help my DD.

Lots to unpack. Here's a simple theory.
Wile E Coyote gets a rubber band and stretches against it as far as he can, then let's go. Zooom. The band contracts and Wile E. takes off.
Now take Wile E. and after he stretches the band as far as he can, pull the front anchor point violently with a large force. The band will stretch more than Wile E. could stretch it by himself.
Now stretch the band and then as the band reaches it's limit and the front anchor us moved, have Wile E. run against the pull of the band.

Turn the shoulders back against a forward moving and gently is opening front hip via external rotation of the rear leg. Creates stretch on the core.
At launch, push the front leg rearward against the pelvis to create a more forceful turn. Simultaneously, throw the barrel rearward via tTB to create an even bigger stretch. Then contract the core against the left turn pull of the pelvis to catch up with the hips.

Anchoring the rear leg may stop the pelvis from rotating.
What stretch does it create and where would the energy be released?

Check out how the forward "drag" or "skip" movement of the rear leg after it becomes unweighted and that the contraction of the femoris rectus pulls against the sacrum to counter rotate it so the spine can positively rotate. Frette's 1st law. This mechanism is how the body ambulates... the pull of the "swing leg" counter rotates the sacrum and the gear effect rotates the lumbar spine in the opposite direction.
Possibly, if the rear leg remains anchored or moves in a scissor, the pull of the femoral rectus (quad muscle) and resulting counter rotation of the sacrum, could have the same positive rotational effect.

 

[DRDRODD]

change this word to "contracted." Muscles don't compress, they get stretched and they contract.
And when they're briefly stretched, the muscles contract with more force. SSC.
And the torso is dragged along until contact. Sometimes longer.

But I could be wrong.
All this seems like a lot of effort to move a stick that weighs a little more than a pound and a half.

I was attempting to relate it into the Biotensegrity model but you get the point.

The torso doesn’t get dragged it is the driver......

It is the most efficient way to swing a club.....

It’s all right here......







Ignore the commentary on this one but it shows the difference between the models....... The hips driving the swing and the torso along for the ride with zero resistance. Compared to a swing with the middle as the driver with good resistance.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Work=wins]

Why does piazza' s bat hit him in the back so hard?

View attachment 18118

Don’t know. Don’t care. I know his rotation stopped at contact. That’s what matters.