Bat Path

[Mudders Brudder]

Looks to me like she gets her hips turned and then her shoulders catch up as the swing. She stretches her obliques when her hips turn open against closed shoulders, and then contracts them to realign hips and shoulders. Every time she makes contact with the ground, she's using her legs for momentum to maintain the turn of the hips.

Yes, agreed, and as I previously stated...she's using her hips/legs to run to gain momentum into the ball, but as I see is absent from mention in your reply as it's also absent in her swing...there isn't any "leverage" that HL hitters get from using their lower half of the body (hips/legs) to leverage their upper half of the body (torso) against at contact during the swing.

Without the hips/legs to leverage the actual swinging of the bat against, the swing itself then becomes all upper body driven (with the exception of the momentum being created by the running legs), where the obliques actually reside is all.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Yes, agreed, and as I previously stated...she's using her hips/legs to run to gain momentum into the ball, but as I see is absent from mention in your reply as it's also absent in her swing...there isn't any "leverage" that HL hitters get from using their lower half of the body (hips/legs) to leverage their upper half of the body (torso) against at contact during the swing.

Without the hips/legs to leverage the actual swinging of the bat against, the swing itself then becomes all upper body driven (with the exception of the momentum being created by the running legs), where the obliques actually reside is all.

Kind of like a jump throw from a shortstop going in the hole? He still leverages his hips from the ground and the resultant momentum is used to leverage the turn of the torso. Like a figure skater jumps into a spin, they stab a skate pic into the ice to create torque/rotation, then jump, land, and spin without any further force aiding in rotation.

 

[Rolling Hard]

But the double pendulum is repeatable in the first phase especially with the locked wrist pin to control the initial direction of the rod, per the article....makes sense.
I still don't see centripetal force and the resulting centrifugal force as extending the barrel. Torque is the force.

Not sure how you torque with locked wrist pins. I think some will have looser grips/wrist and will release the barrel more than others with tighter grips. But there is centripetal force. Some use it more than others.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Kind of like a jump throw from a shortstop going in the hole? He still leverages his hips from the ground and the resultant momentum is used to leverage the turn of the torso. Like a figure skater jumps into a spin, they stab a skate pic into the ice to create torque/rotation, then jump, land, and spin without any further force aiding in rotation.

The slap hitter in the referenced clip is basically swinging the bat, the same way DJ is making this jump throw from the hole....

They both just use(d) their hips to turn their body in the direction of which they are going to swing, and throw....but the actual swing and throw were all arm and upper body (torso) movements...here was/is no use of their lower body (hips/legs) to "leverage" the swing or throw against.

Does DJ and the hitter make a stronger throw and swing if they're throw and swing are leveraged against the front leg/hip (that have to have "the hips lead the hands" in order to do so)...or are the jump throw and slap swing w/o the lead hip/leg being leverage against stronger? Rhetorical question, as I know we both already know the answer to the question(s).

Hope the better explains my previous post that, "Yes, there are swings where obliques [should have included "arms" and/or "upper half" as well] will lead the hips...and will be the primary mover/swinger of the bat". As the actual moving/swinging of the bat part is done by the obliques [should have included "arms" and/or "upper half" as well], as the legs/hips/lower body are already busy or tied up running wherever, and are not/never used to leverage the swing against as is done is a regular, feet planted standard(?) swing.



"in reference to the kinetic chain of events or body movement of swinging the bat"...in order for them to get in front of the hands so they can be leveraged against (HL swing) vs the hips lead the hands, "just being ahead of or leading in space or distance during the event of it".

 

[Bobby Shirer]

The slap hitter in the referenced clip is basically swinging the bat, the same way DJ is making this jump throw from the hole....

They both just use(d) their hips to turn their body in the direction of which they are going to swing, and throw....but the actual swing and throw were all arm and upper body (torso) movements...here was/is no use of their lower body (hips/legs) to "leverage" the swing or throw against.

Does DJ and the hitter make a stronger throw and swing if they're throw and swing are leveraged against the front leg/hip (that have to have "the hips lead the hands" in order to do so)...or are the jump throw and slap swing w/o the lead hip/leg being leverage against stronger? Rhetorical question, as I know we both already know the answer to the question(s).

Hope the better explains my previous post that, "Yes, there are swings where obliques [should have included "arms" and/or "upper half" as well] will lead the hips...and will be the primary mover/swinger of the bat". As the actual moving/swinging of the bat part is done by the obliques [should have included "arms" and/or "upper half" as well], as the legs/hips/lower body are already busy or tied up running wherever, and are not/never used to leverage the swing against as is done is a regular, feet planted standard(?) swing.



"in reference to the kinetic chain of events or body movement of swinging the bat"...in order for them to get in front of the hands so they can be leveraged against (HL swing) vs the hips lead the hands, "just being ahead of or leading in space or distance during the event of it".

I don't disagree that the obliques fire, but in the swing and the jump throw the hips turn first and then the shoulders are rotated by the obliques to catch up/align. I've never seen a throw where the hips stay facing away from the target and the shortstop turns only his shoulders and makes the throw which would surely indicate an oblique driven movement.
Many have described movements where the obliques move the shoulders ahead of the hips but I have yet to see it. Then again, I haven't seen Lock Ness either.

 

[Work=wins]

DJ throws against his hips and legs. The hips and legs stabilize so the throw can be made with direction.. The core turns on top of the hips. Try it. You might find something ‘new’ to play with.

 

[Bonesaw]

I think the hip flexors are working pretty hard in that throw.

 

[Work=wins]

I think the hip flexors are working pretty hard in that throw.

sure the vertical portion. The throw is all core.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

I don't disagree that the obliques fire, but in the swing and the jump throw the hips turn first and then the shoulders are rotated by the obliques to catch up/align. I've never seen a throw where the hips stay facing away from the target and the shortstop turns only his shoulders and makes the throw which would surely indicate an oblique driven movement.
Many have described movements where the obliques move the shoulders ahead of the hips but I have yet to see it. Then again, I haven't seen Lock Ness either.

Not sure I understand your argument or disagreement with what I wrote, or what it is you're trying to explain that I haven't already stated.

I never said that the hips don't turn first, or that they don't face their target in both hitting and throwing....in fact, I even use the cue "hit the ball with your rear hip" to get hitters thinking about finding direction to the ball before they use it as a fulcrum point to leverage the swing against. So I'm a bit baffled as to what it is you're still attempting to argue against, or disagree with.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Not sure how you torque with locked wrist pins. I think some will have looser grips/wrist and will release the barrel more than others with tighter grips. But there is centripetal force. Some use it more than others.

My bad....locked wrist pin is a misleading description. In the article, the author describes a pin to prevent the rod from rotating in both directions....so the rod doesn't counter-rotate.
As for the centrifugal force. I've noted the direction of the force opposite the author's centripetal force notations in red and blue.
The red arrows would indicate a force that doesn't affect rotation very much if at all (especially when aligned perfectly parallel)
The blue line indicates a force in a direction that could aid in rotation but, as you can see, once the rotation advance, the force acts counter to rotation or even extension of the barrel.
To make it easy to understand. Imagine that I'm pulling the end of the bat in the direction of the arrows while you're trying to swing it. Would it ever extend, much less accelerate?
The centrifugal force is only making the bat feel heavier, it doesn't aid in swinging it.

Torque is the force that rotates the barrel. In the following drawing, the red arrows indicate the direction of force. Perpendicular force applied at the handle of the bat will cause the barrel to rotate in the direction of the blue arrows.