Baserunning - Rocker start vs others?

[Ken Krause]

the instructors (Jay Miller, Scott Centalla and Carol Bruggeman) said the NFCA did a study of this topic. Despite the "logic" and prevailing opinions, the fastest way to get from one base to the next was to use the sprinter start. Doesn't matter what any of us thinks. The data tells the story.

That being said, the ultimate goal is to have your runner steal the base. Whatever works best for her is the way to go.

By the way, had my first runner called out for leaving early last weekend. Hated to get the out, but I admit I was kind of proud of her!

 

[obbay]

That being said, the ultimate goal is to have your runner steal the base. Whatever works best for her is the way to go.

well said Ken!

I know in the Regionals and the Super Regionals that I saw this year (televised), I was seeing different starts used but I think I was seeing the Rocker start the most. Some camera coverage picked up the runner on 2B so well that you could see the footwork.

(I burned DVDs and loaned them out to my team- hopefully they learned something.)

 

[SBFAMILY]

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/marcs-softball-tips/3531-10-baserunning-skills-practice.html

After working with Marc Dagenais , he is very good at this subject. He helped my dd become quicker, she was already fast. Not saying others are wrong, but I trust his opinion on this subject.

 

[Ken Krause]

Just a couple more thoughts on this subject. In this case that's all they are -- my thoughts/opinions.

One of the most important elements to getting a quick jump is to start with short, choppy strides then lengthen them once you get going. My feeling is a lot of the girls using the rocker start have their right (trail) foot back too far to start. I see that on the bases all the time -- left foot on the front of the base, toes of the right close to the back of the base so they're practically straddling. When they stride out, they tend to match that distance with the first step, more than negating any advantage they might gain by "being in motion." If anything, they're almost coming to a dead stop and then having to get going from there. The same can happen from a sprinter start if the feet get out too wide, but it's easier to keep them closer together so you can get the quick burst since there's no base in the way.

With the sprinter start you're still pushing off the left foot, or at least should be. A savvy baserunner can rock back a little to break inertia, much like a hitter or pitcher does, while still being a step closer to the bag. She also should be pushing off the lead foot, not the trail foot as some seem to think you do. Assuming the left foot is off the bag, you should be pushing off that foot, with the right knee driving forward. If you're pushing off the base you are not going to get as quick a start.

 

[mrslug01]

Rocker style is the one in the original post.

I just don't know how anyone can say that a standing start is faster than a running start (rocker style). The only way this can even be possible is if the runner, leaving rocker style, is leaving late. Time your runners with a stop watch, and start it when the foot leaves the base. Speed is all about each step being faster than the previous. If you can take the first step before the pitch is released, or your foot comes off the base, you will be able to reach a greater speed before reaching second base.

It's all about timing the pitcher's release to your foot leaving the bag. If you're late, it's the 1st base coach's job to let you know so you can adjust. It may take more practice to learn to do it properly, but it's well worth the effort if you expect to steal.

We teach our girls Rocker start and don't actually teach anything about timing the ball.
We teach them to watch the stride foot of the pitcher. When she starts her motion, lifting the stride foot, we have baserunner start her back foot in motion. We were told that by a D1 coach at a clinic 5 years ago and always teach it. Rarely do we see anyone get called out for leaving early and the girls that do it correctly get a great jump!

 

[SBFAMILY]

We do not straddle the base. Ken that would be a big mistake. I agree. We stand just behind the base with the front foot on the outside edge and the back foot to the side of the base. We are not wide. You see this with many of the colleges if you watched the college playoffs. Then we do the whistle test to work on the jump. This everyone teaches different. We went to the ball as it passes the hip , because it takes a few split seconds for the kid's mind to tell them to move and the fact that they can be moving before the front foot releases. One college coach we worked with , says if you don't get called once in a while for an early start you are not doing your job.

 

[FPMark]

When you have a runner on 1st, and want them to steal, timing the pitch release to the foot actually leaving the base is the best way to get to 2nd in the shortest amount of time, regardless of which type of stance is used. I prefer the rocker style because of the ease of adjustability as well as the "running start" it allows.

Someone on here a while back (Druer?) suggested that if you view the pitchers arm circle as a clock, you can easily adjust the start to the release. This has made a BIG difference in the way I have taught my DD to leave 1st base. She can now start her back foot at 12:00 when she is not going to steal, and 9:00 if she is. This can also be adjusted depending on the speed of the pitchers arm. (Faster pitcher, she may leave at 11 and 8, slower 1 and 10)

Adjusting the leave also has the benefit of being able to not draw the attention of the umpire on every pitch. Base umps position with a runner on 1st, (between 1st and 2nd) usually does not allow a great view of the release and the runner at the same time, unless he is making an effort to watch. When the runner leaves on time, (a little early) it is not nearly as likely to be noticed.

 

[rowdy]

How you start becomes less important as you get older. The key to what Jessica is teaching is the ability to get into an athletic position once you are off the base a couple of steps. In 10-12U most catchers are not going to pick you off at first unless you are really careless but as you get older the ball gets down there a lot faster.

On straight steals it all comes down to timing. If you are closer to 2nd when the ball is released you will get there faster assuming you have any forward momentum at the time. Video your players, not to teach them which way to do it, but to show them if they are in fact getting a good jump or they are late.

 

[dbias]

How you start becomes less important as you get older. The key to what Jessica is teaching is the ability to get into an athletic position once you are off the base a couple of steps. In 10-12U most catchers are not going to pick you off at first unless you are really careless but as you get older the ball gets down there a lot faster.

On straight steals it all comes down to timing. If you are closer to 2nd when the ball is released you will get there faster assuming you have any forward momentum at the time. Video your players, not to teach them which way to do it, but to show them if they are in fact getting a good jump or they are late.

We are 96' in 14u and have a catcher with a very good arm. The best way to discourage a good lead off is to have her fire three or four in a row to first base no matter how big the lead of the runner at the start of the game on the very first baserunner. With good first base play, ie push your butt back into base path catch ball right on foul line and counter clockwise sweep to back fair corner of base we have shot down many a runner right off the bat. This is often unexpected, from teams who havent seen us, and catches runners off guard quite often. Catcher also does her part in feigning a terrible rainbow "coming down" throw in warmups. lol

 

[Craig]

DD prefers the rocker start and puts the front foot on the outside of the bag: