Are too many making a mistake to play college softball?

[Vertigo]

Often the greatest emphasis of attendance at an Ivy is the same as going "Big D1" in softball - bragging rights for the parents back home. It looks great on a bumper sticker. For many it is a self-validation of successful parenting, although all too often it is all about the hopes and dreams of the parents not the kids.

That could be very true, as well - and is probably one of the reasons why many of the Ivy League / "Big School Name" alumni tend to look out for their own when it comes to hiring practices.

Hey, I totally disagree with it, but see it happen quite frequently.

 

[7smom]

I come at this through two points of view. I have a DD who plays college softball and I work with students at a large university (not the same school as DD). Having the right fit for college is important no matter if you are a student athlete or not. If you choose a college because it has the “best” program but you hate the location, atmosphere, size etc., you will likely sacrifice success. Students who are unhappy, for whatever reason, aren’t engaged in class, with professors, in extracurricular activities, leadership activities and all the other things that make them desirable employees.

If you are a student athlete, the fit is just as important. I talk with recruits from a variety sports and I talk to them about the importance of the academic and social fit, but also tell them that the athletic fit is just as important. Many (most) student athletes have sacrificed much in their young lives in order to play in college, to totally discount that when it comes to choosing a school doesn’t make sense to me. Having worked in higher education for nearly 20 years, I firmly believe it doesn’t matter where you go to school but what you do while you’re there that leads to post graduate success. Not only do I work with hundreds of college student on a regular basis, I also hire people. I agree with those who have said that where someone earned a degree is not nearly as important as those things he/she has done outside the classroom.

Being a student athlete brings a whole other dimension to being a student- no matter what division you play. Intensity and time commitment for a student athlete can vary based not only on division, but sport, coach, and school. While each division has rules that govern time commitment of student athletes, each coach uses time differently within these rules. Additionally, no matter what division (DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, Juco) you play, you work hard and sacrifice a “regular” college experience. I think people who try to say one level is better or more difficult than the other don’t really understand college sports from the student perspective. Are there better athletes at top DI programs- Yes, usually. But there are a lot of DI “misses” out there playing for DII, DIII, and NAIA either by choice, lack of exposure, injuries, or various other reasons.

One last note- our career services staff had two employers this year ask specifically for student athletes. One employer had been a student athlete and understood the skills an athlete would bring to his company. The other had not been a student athlete but wanted the work ethic, time management, and teamwork skills of a student athlete. I’m not saying students can’t develop and demonstrate those skills in other ways, I’m simply saying that I know from specific examples that being a student athlete is a positive when moving on to the “real world.”

So, I say- if you love the game and want to keep playing, find a place where you can play. For most people, the window is very short for a competitive sports career. While it may not be a viable option to “go pro” in softball, there are certainly many ways for women to stay involved in the game whether that be a career in coaching or being an engineer who helps design new softball bat materials.

 

[Greenmonsters]

As posted by others, the graduate school is far more important than the undergrad school. Playing softball for 4 years won't be a factor as long as they can get into a strong graduate program and do some related internships in the offseason. With graduate school being key for many majors/careers, you shouldn't overspend on the undergrad.

IME, the undergrad school reputation is at least as heavily weighed by top grad school programs as it is by potential employers.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Interesting. Had a former Senior Partner with PWC who was then the CFO of Kellogg's tell me he really did not care where they went to school. It was about the grades and especially the face to face.

I'm sure that the candidate resumes he actually saw had already been extensively screened and culled. At that point, I'd agree that when the final candidates are down to exceptional students from Princeton, Amherst, Johns Hopkins, U of Chicago, Stanford, or Bowdoin, it indeed does come down to the interview. Getting to that interview stage is a lot tougher challenge for the kid from State U. even though they could end up being the best of the lot once hired.

 

[JoeKC]

... One last note- our career services staff had two employers this year ask specifically for student athletes. One employer had been a student athlete and understood the skills an athlete would bring to his company. The other had not been a student athlete but wanted the work ethic, time management, and teamwork skills of a student athlete. I’m not saying students can’t develop and demonstrate those skills in other ways, I’m simply saying that I know from specific examples that being a student athlete is a positive when moving on to the “real world...”

Well said. As an employer, the skills that a student athlete must develop to be a winner are very desirable. Give me those skills/personal attributes and I'll teach them the business or train them to do the job in question. That changes somewhat if the role is very technical in nature (architect, engineer, CPA, nurse, etc), but having those technical skills and the tenacity of a student athlete is a great combination. I've known some highly/well educated individuals that couldn't find the restroom without specific, and ongoing guidance, and some high school dropouts that were wildly successful by any measure. Ivy league or equivalent educations have great benefits for most that achieve them, but assuming all Ivy League grads and all state school grads are uniquely homogenous groups is foolish. The best and brightest with the most determination and drive will always rise to the top, regardless of where they spent the four years immediately following their high school graduation.

 

[chinamigarden]

They do have more knowledge in certain areas. What they don't have is the experience (knowledge) that PTs have who have been practicing for years.

The history behind the change was the APTA thought that if PTs had doctorates and did research papers then the rest of the medical community (MDs/surgeons) would give them more respect. Of course MDs don't respect PTs any more now then in the past.

Its no different then a lot of careers where the years of schooling required has risen over the years without measurable improvement in the graduates. It became schooling for schoolings sake. Don't get me wrong, I respect what the kids who are in PT school are doing, I remember when my wife took her gross anatomy class during a summer semester. It a tough curriculum and the kids who graduate are highly qualified. But those same kids could have taken the program from the 80s and been highly qualified with less debt and start their career that much sooner.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Where would you want your kid? Spending 4 years at Yale as student where nitwits recently signed a petition to ban the 1st amendment....

No matter where she ends up, I hope she's smart enough to investigate the story behind the story instead of just accepting headlines at face value. Yes, there are academic whiz kids who don't realize that protecting their own free speech means protecting speech they may not like, too, including guerrilla journalism.

I don't recall the exact quote, but about 25 years ago, I read an article on the subject that said a great reason to attend (or send your child to) an Ivy League school is to attend school with others who have gone Ivy. The author's argument was that, even if you're not born into the "Newport Yacht club", attending an elite institution could open doors to that network.

I'm posting this link in response to statements made about the approximate value of an Ivy League degree. But as has also been noted, this isn't the type of information that matters at all to most people. It only matters if you pay attention to matters of money, power, privilege, and/or access. Regardless of how public policy and high finance impact everyone's daily lives, MOST PEOPLE are neither in nor have any interest in that conversation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/

 

[riseball]

....I'm posting this link in response to statements made about the approximate value of an Ivy League degree. But as has also been noted, this isn't the type of information that matters at all to most people. It only matters if you pay attention to matters of money, power, privilege, and/or access. Regardless of how public policy and high finance impact everyone's daily lives, MOST PEOPLE are neither in nor have any interest in that conversation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/

This is a prime example of the garbage that passes for journalism at the WP. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that if you took the bottom 25% of "All Schools" and lumped them in with the Ivies the numbers would be much different. The is a textbook example of an apples to oranges comparison, or maybe even apples to fruit. Comparing an Ivy or any quality school with Rudae's School of Beauty Culture-Kokomo Indiana is a bit ludicrous.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

IME, the undergrad school reputation is at least as heavily weighed by top grad school programs as it is by potential employers.

It's unclear to me what point you're trying to make... I know grad schools weigh the undergrad school's reputation when considering applicants and tried to convey it has to be strong enough to get into their intended grad school. After completing grad school, employers are far more concerned with the grad school than the undergrad. The combination is like a 2-digit number where the grad school is in the tens' place and the undergrad is in the ones' place - a top undergrad school is not going to outweigh a weaker grad school, however it may be a factor if the grad schools are equal.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I'm posting this link in response to statements made about the approximate value of an Ivy League degree. But as has also been noted, this isn't the type of information that matters at all to most people. It only matters if you pay attention to matters of money, power, privilege, and/or access. Regardless of how public policy and high finance impact everyone's daily lives, MOST PEOPLE are neither in nor have any interest in that conversation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/

The data doesn't come anywhere close to reflecting the value of an Ivy degree...
- It includes students that didn't graduate.
- The earnings data is limited to those that received federal aid while there.
- It includes graduate students - the avg age of Harvard students is 23.65 at enrollment!
- "All schools" includes JUCOs and vocationals (e.g. barber), which have lower graduation rates and earnings.

I agree people should look at how graduates for their intended major(s) fare at the schools they're considering. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any resource whose data is highly accurate/reliable.