Another one for the file.

[guero_gordo]

Trick plays have to be set up situationally perfect to work.

I'm sorry, you're classifying yelling "Eat it" at the other team's catcher when stealing as a "trick play" ?

What is your sanctioning organization, the BFL ?

 

[Mr T]

MTR, I was referring to obbay's verbiage, which I thought was taken verbatim from the definitions section of the rule book. Is that not the case?

However, in the section 8 specifically talking about interference, it isn't clear to me what would be inappropriate verbally, as no examples are given.

In the game I was talking about only a warning was given and no runner was called out.

Yes, 10U batters are usually trained to run on strike 3 just in case and it's up to the catcher to be aware. However, a coach verbally confusing the play is a different matter.

I wasn't sure if you were condoning such behavior, so I did read the words. That's why I said "if". Glad you don't and apologies if it appeared I jumped to that conclusion. You are right, it's mostly up to the coach to prep his team to be "bush league resistant", but it would be nice if it was within the umpire's power to actually call these clown coaches on this stuff. I agree with a fan it becomes touchier, but it would still be nice to be able to make the call if necessary. So, I hold hope for the rule, but don't claim to be right about it.

As for various other comments here: I would think it's not hard to draw a line between aggressive play, and even tricky play done by the players, and coaches trying to confuse new players who are learning the game. But apparently I am wrong and it is hard in the minds of some grown men to make such a distinction.

 

[chinamigarden]

Rule? Can you quote it? Funny that we have played in 9 different states and 1000+ games and never been called on it. I'm not cussing a player or verbally abusing or taunting.

I guess the catchers you have been around have no sense of humor, and are not willing to learn anything that is not "written" in the book of softball. Once they (catchers) get caught off guard with the play, they usually never fall for it again. Bang, they have learned something new.

And my DD plays 18u, by this time the catchers are like stone. Because somewhere sometime someone has caught them mentally off guard and they have used that failure to adapt and focus on the play at hand.

I've been playing ball since I was 6 in HS, travel, and college. I'm still a student of the game and always happy to learn something, even if it's at my own expense.

"Fool me once, shame on you...............fool me twice, shame on me".

ASA rulebook

INTERFERENCE: The act of an offensive player or team member, umpire or spectator
that impedes, hinders, or confuses a defensive player attempting to execute a
play. Contact is not necessary

Justify it anyway you want. Pretend you are performing a service of toughening up another team's catcher. Whatever works for you. But you are interjecting yourself into the play of the game.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Well I knew on my original post I was going to catch some stones.

If youre in this game long enough you will run across this "play", sometime. I had this done to me many years ago pitching in baseball. My catcher and I laughed for years because it was so simple and stupid...........but he also took the bait. At least I've given you some food for thought and maybe you can teach your catcher not to fall for this. So you have learned something. That's why we are all here.

One thing I will never understand.......why in most other sports trick plays are glamorized. ( not just the play in this post ) In women's softball it is considered bush league or classless.

 

[hotcorner]

Spectators do not make plays! If the players want to try a trick play or confuse the other team they run the risk of having the umpire call them on it or having the opposing players police them with a pitch in the ribs or a hard tag in the face. Your time playing game is over.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I can describe a few more trick plays after the water stops boiling.

These I also have seen done over the years. They only involve the fielders and are truly trick plays with no "interference" from coaches, parents. A couple are really a masterpiece.

 

[Mr T]

You ever give pitching signals? ( that's trying to fool a batter ) Ever signal a batter to fake bunt, so the runner can straight up steal? ( that's trying to fool the defense ) Ever fake a throw down to a cut off SS to catch the runner on 3rd off guard for an out? ( that's fooling a runner ) Ever call time and bring the defense in for discussion on a play? ( that's trying to fool the runners and coaches as to what and where youre going to get that out )

I've had so many catchers laughingly tell me " Coach Tim, I'll never fall for that again from anyone ". So I've actually taught them NOT to listen to spectators.

I'm not sure what level you did this at, your trick play that is. If you're talking about older kids I don't have a whole lot of problem with it. It's still probably sort of bush for a coach to devote energy to it, but whatever.

The examples you give are different. The distinction for me is when you are just trying to confuse young players, and the deception merely relies on the fact that the young players are in the process of learning the rules. It's a pretty easy distinction to make.

I love trick plays when appropriate. In HS we were in a critical moment of a game against perennial powerhouse De La Salle in north coast sectional championship. Runner on first. Coach calls a play we had practiced a couple times ages ago, but never tried. I'm thinking there is no way this will work, probably no one remembers that signal, and even if we execute it they will just laugh at how stupid we are. Our pitcher takes quick step off rubber after stretch, makes full throwing motion over to first but leaves ball in mitt. 1st baseman dives and 2nd baseman goes tearing off towards right field line like it got by him. I can see for an instant the runner is confused as he hasn't seen the ball, but the 1st base coach goes nuts and tells him to run. I can't believe it. The pitcher tosses the ball to SS and it's an easy out.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Mr. T, you hit the nail on the head. A coached trick play that the kids pull off is quite diffrent from a coach being a bush league moron trying to trick one group of 8-10 year old girls so his 8-10 year old girls can win by yelling wronginstructions to the other team.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

We also have used the 'wounded Eagle or sniper' play. Runner at 1st and 3rd, less than 2 outs, usually a tie game. After the pitch the runner on first attempts to advance to 2nd, about 3/4 of the way there she trips and falls. ( she must look like it was not intentional ) the catcher ( caught up in the moment ) will throw down for the easy out. Runner on 3rd comes home.

 

[guero_gordo]

You must be so very proud of yourself, oh sage one.