Another Dad looking for swing analysis and some hitting advice

[softballphreak]

I wonder if they have a chart like that on Cabrera?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I don't know Softballphreak, but I would welcome that data.

 

[straightleg]

What I do have is the information I’ve picked up at different coaches camps; coming home and experimenting for myself. I can tell by the sound of the bat when the kid finds the best contact location for her\him.

As far as statistics go I’ve learned that “Figures don’t lie but liars figure”.

One in every crowd!


Peppers, when you cross this board, there seems to be one that is always duking it out with someone. One that takes it past a normal question. Cant say who that is, but enjoy your comments on all topics.




"Figures don’t lie but liars figure”. So true!!



Straightleg

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[Ken Krause]

I'm not personally interested in a discussion with a liar. I'll leave that for others.

I do like the notion of paying attention to statistics. So let's continue with the discussion ... and if you have some statistics to share, then please share them.

There was a study performed on MLB home runs in which the point of contact was analyzed. What was observed does not agree with what you suggest. Normalizing for relative placement of the front foot, they observed that contact was made further out towards the pitcher for inside pitches … and as you suggest, as the pitch came in more towards the middle of the plate, the point of contact reached a minimum … but as the pitch went from being located from middle of the plate, towards the outer half of the plate, the optimal contact point remained the same … and as the ball was located further off of the plate, then the optimal contact point was actually further out towards the pitcher, but less so than for an inside pitch. Such a diagram would look something like what you see below (oriented for a right handed hitter).

Sorry, but I just can't let this one slide. In order for this data to be relevant to teaching someone's daughter how to hit a softball, it has to presume that a 12, or 14, or even 20 year old girl can swing the bat in the same way as a Major League Baseball player who is capable of hitting home runs. That's a pretty big presumption in my opinion.

In my experience, a girl who doesn't let an outside pitch get deeper than an inside or middle pitch is going to either hook it and hit a weak ground ball to short, or pop it up, probably to the right hand side.

Even data from the D1 WCWS would be tough to justify since generally speaking they're going to have well better than average athletic ability by definition; you don't get to play in the D1 WCWS by having average or below average abilities. But at least it would be somewhat closer.

Any time you're looking at statistical "evidence," you have to make sure that the sample group is comparable to the population to which you're trying to apply it.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Have you been to batspeed.com,, i just saw the first clip, and hands were not direct to ball, the quieter the upper body , but there was a slight hand drop, maybe yoy have that corrected,

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Sorry, but I just can't let this one slide. In order for this data to be relevant to teaching someone's daughter how to hit a softball, it has to presume that a 12, or 14, or even 20 year old girl can swing the bat in the same way as a Major League Baseball player who is capable of hitting home runs. That's a pretty big presumption in my opinion.

In my experience, a girl who doesn't let an outside pitch get deeper than an inside or middle pitch is going to either hook it and hit a weak ground ball to short, or pop it up, probably to the right hand side.

Even data from the D1 WCWS would be tough to justify since generally speaking they're going to have well better than average athletic ability by definition; you don't get to play in the D1 WCWS by having average or below average abilities. But at least it would be somewhat closer.

Any time you're looking at statistical "evidence," you have to make sure that the sample group is comparable to the population to which you're trying to apply it.

I'm not asking you, or anyone, to let anything 'slide'. To the contrary, I'm looking for a discussion .... and I welcome supporting data. Telling me that you agree that MLB hitters hit this way, but that girls should not hit this way, is not supporting data ... it is merely your coaching belief, and a belief that I personally think uses an improper blue print for charting out a path for a developing hitter.

As with others ... I welcome supporting data.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I'm not personally interested in a discussion with a liar. I'll leave that for others.

I do like the notion of paying attention to statistics. So let's continue with the discussion ... and if you have some statistics to share, then please share them.

There was a study performed on MLB home runs in which the point of contact was analyzed. What was observed does not agree with what you suggest. Normalizing for relative placement of the front foot, they observed that contact was made further out towards the pitcher for inside pitches … and as you suggest, as the pitch came in more towards the middle of the plate, the point of contact reached a minimum … but as the pitch went from being located from middle of the plate, towards the outer half of the plate, the optimal contact point remained the same … and as the ball was located further off of the plate, then the optimal contact point was actually further out towards the pitcher, but less so than for an inside pitch. Such a diagram would look something like what you see below (oriented for a right handed hitter).

With respect to the outside pitches, which ones were hit oppo and which ones were pulled?

 

[softballphreak]

I don't know what MLB batters would do with those outside pitches but I know what would happen if our players attempted to hit the outside pitches at that location. Weak grounders or more likely, pop ups. No way they're going to opposite field. MLB batters aren't going to opposite field either, at those locations.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

With respect to the outside pitches, which ones were hit oppo and which ones were pulled?

Good question ... I don't have the data broken down to that yet. The example home runs I have to opposite field do not show the hitters making contact as deep as many teach ... suggesting to me that home-run hitters don't have a mindset of trying to make a hard hit foul ball, but more a mindset to realize a hard hit ball in fair territory. Do you have any examples of home runs that you can post with the hitter making contact on the outside edge “at the straddle” (back at the center point of the body)? That's the type of data I'm looking for ... the examples that back up what is commonly instructed.