2nd push at the end of drag or not?

[STRIKE3]

I am sure that this video has been posted in a thread somewhere before but I haven't come across it. So if someone has the thread that has already been commented in please share.

If not, I would be curious to get thoughts on this video particularly on the first pitcher in white. I believe she has a very long drag BUT has a 2nd push before she throws the pitch. It is very subtle but a 2nd push in my opinion. Curious what others think...There are other things going on such as leaning over at the end but most interested in the drag/2nd push or not question. Thanks ahead of time for your feedback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH_sC5m3DKM

 

[mothgirl]

I do see a second push but I don't know if it's illegal, I don't remember the rules, I need to put the rules on my phone those so I always have them

 

[STRIKE3]

Thanks Mothgirl. I have always been under the belief that you cannot push a second time. Even though she clearly keeps her foot down and drags well. I looked at some threads talking about Silkwood and Carda from last spring. They both clearly are airborne and then land, replant, second push. The girl in white does not but pushes again. In those previous threads there were some comments that if they kept their drag foot on the ground and pushed again it would be legal. I don't think that is the case but perhaps NCAA rules are different when it comes to that particular rule. Below is the ASA section on this and it clearly states you cannot push of from a newly-established starting point.

Perhaps my interpretation is incorrect and the girl in white is legal. In fact, I hope I am wrong because I have been losing sleep over the 2nd push I see every weekend and choose not to teach to my DD under the thoughts it is illegal.

Lastly, my understanding and belief is the girl in white is the most legal illegal pitcher I have seen. I certainly welcome additional feedback on this and it would help me greatly.

ASA - "A crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops, or drags off the
Front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus
(or starting point), pushes off from the newly-established starting point and
and completes the delivery."
And the ASA rulebook also states:
"Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal."

 

[Axe]

I'll stick to the question asked. I'm sure there will be quite a few pitching fundamentals comments (especially front side resistance issues).

The girl in white could be slightly replanting, it's almost imperceptible. She isn't getting anything out of it because it happens as the ball is leaving her hand (maybe even after?). Most illegal pitcher I've ever seen seems like a stretch. Has she beaten you a couple of times?

The second kid might be leaping on a couple of those. Again, it's slight. What level is this? Looks like 12U Rec ball maybe even 10U I can't see where the bases are relative to the pitcher's plate? I don't see either getting called.

 

[Comp]

I believe this video has been posted before and commented on. ASA has a clarification stating there is no rule about the drag foot bearing weight again as long as the foot is actually dragging on the ground. I believe they even refer to it as a push drag push. My recollection is they even make the statement it is impossible to replant and push again if the drag foot is legally dragging.

I personally do not agree with the clarification, but that is the way they want it called. As for the statement of it being impossible to drag and replant, I have seen plenty of pitchers that actually do. Had a girl in high school a few years back that drug a trench 3' out in front of the pitching plate, another push hole where she was pushing again and another 3' of drag.

 

[Hillhouse]

I don't see a second push on every pitch. I see inconsistency. The way you KNOW there is a second push is if the arm circle pauses once it starts. That's it. The pause in the arm circle happens at the exact time of the replant. But this girls doesn't do it on every pitch. That said, I agree with Axe... the push, leap, thing is the least of her problems.

Bill

 

[STRIKE3]

Thanks for the reply Axe! Glad to read you see it much like I do. I posed it all about the feet (drag, second push, etc.) to get feedback and appreciate your answer.

I have no idea what age group this is but have seen if for awhile out on youtube so thought I would post it to see what feedback I could get.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

 

[STRIKE3]

Comp and Bill - Thank you both for your feedback!!

 

[STRIKE3]

I believe this video has been posted before and commented on. ASA has a clarification stating there is no rule about the drag foot bearing weight again as long as the foot is actually dragging on the ground. I believe they even refer to it as a push drag push. My recollection is they even make the statement it is impossible to replant and push again if the drag foot is legally dragging.

I personally do not agree with the clarification, but that is the way they want it called. As for the statement of it being impossible to drag and replant, I have seen plenty of pitchers that actually do. Had a girl in high school a few years back that drug a trench 3' out in front of the pitching plate, another push hole where she was pushing again and another 3' of drag.

Comp- I tried to research for the ASA pitching clarification you mentioned above. Do you have a link or place I could find this? Could anyone else direct me to it?

I appreciate the help!

 

[Rocketech1]

I don't see a second push on every pitch. I see inconsistency. The way you KNOW there is a second push is if the arm circle pauses once it starts. That's it. The pause in the arm circle happens at the exact time of the replant. But this girls doesn't do it on every pitch. That said, I agree with Axe... the push, leap, thing is the least of her problems.

Bill

This is one area that I have always disagreed with, the concept that "a faulty arm circle causes a crow hop. Fix the arm circle and the crow hop goes away". IMHO, if anything, a crow hop messes up the arm circle not the other way around. Leap and drag correctly and the crow hop goes away.