15 year old part 2

[pstein]

P. do you have any hard facts on pitching speeds or movement? I was watching e60 last night about perfect games. They had some old video, like Don Larson's no wind up pitching. Those vids, the vids of Ted, Babe, and etc, I just can never help but to think those pitches look like they are topping out in 70s...maybe 80.

Okay, so it's a Friday night and I'm a college student about to leave... but, I don't have a ton of information.

Basically, radar guns didn't really come into being (for baseball) until the 1970s-1980s. In the 40s (don't remember the year), Bob Feller was tested with the same machine that tested artillery shell velocity. It measured him at 98 mph, and he was on flat ground. Someone figured out that the equivalent from a real mound would be 108 MPH.

There were guys who definitely threw high 90s. Virgil Trucks, Feller, Bob Lemon, Allie Reynolds, etc. threw very hard. However, in those days, pitching was really more intended to get guys out, not strike outs. I would say, in general, pitchers throw harder today than they used to. That's simply a function of relief pitching/training/the fact that complete games aren't really expected. Nobody has thrown 300 innings since the 70s. The hardest throwers of the 20s, Walter Johnson and Lefty Grove threw hard, but estimates vary on velocity. Walter Johnson supposedly threw so hard that guys didn't see the ball.

Also, my opinion is that the ball moved as much (if not more) as it does now. Pitchers threw from a mound 15 inches high (though some were higher). A 6 foot pitcher who throws overhand releases the ball around 7/7.5 feet off the ground (guessing here). In order for the ball to be a strike at the knees, it would have to break about 5-6 feet. Also, I'm seriously convinced that the ball was deader than it is now, although science doesn't necessarily support my belief.

 

[stiksdad]

FFS knows I rarely defend him, but Richard blasts him more than anyone else on Hi. I have read the book, but I think you need to take some of what he said and use it and some knowledge has advanced past what Ted thought due to todays scientific research. Same issues I have with Mike Epstein.
Some of the advancement using computers and pressure plates under the feet during the swing Ted didn't have that knowledge. Some of the bat speed tests based on grip are new. I think you need to read different views on hitting to expand your knowledge. Plus nothing like testing this knowledge with students. Like Ken stated it also boils down to the ability to teach that knowledge to a student. Many can talk the talk, but can't teach worth a lick.

We can debate what Howard Carrier presents to students, but he is the BEST teacher around kids I have been around. He has produced results. We can debate if they are good or bad, but if your goal is play softball at the next level, few can match his success.

You just cannot argue with the results, I been to one of their clinics, what Howard and Crystal teach, works. One thing I will say what Howard teaches is an understanding a method that is relatively easy to learn because you can prove it to yourself before trying to teach it to someone else. There is so much information out now, some good some not so much, but I believe the biggest problem is instructors try to teach something they dont really understand, and that leads to kids with poor swings more then anything. Sorry for jumping in but just my thoughts.