I/R in the Classroom

OILF(screwball), TPG et al.........

I'm going to re-post one of the opening paragraphs I wrote in this thread..........Maybe you and PG should re-read it.........No......I mean really pay attention to what it says:

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First of all, we all know that grip, stance, posture, wind-up/load and leg drive all contribute to pitching a softball. IMO, none of these are on my list of "absolutes". They are "styles". That is, not every high level pitcher uses exactly the same style any of the above listed requisites of pitching.

The ONLY thing I view as an absolute in pitching is Internal Rotation. Which is why I focus on it so much. If I can teach a young lady/man to "throw" a softball correctly and efficiently, and literally "play catch throwing underhand" as naturally as they would overhand, my job becomes so much easier when it comes to adding "style".........
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This thread is about learning what I/R is........And how it works..........And how to learn the "Feel" of how it works and incorporates into the process of throwing a ball underhand CORRECTLY...........And how the best pitchers use it to throw a softball underhand.........

It is a "teaching tool" for those who WANT TO KNOW...........

This thread is NOT a place for people who don't not want to know/learn about Internal Rotation Mechanics.........Or are clueless in general about the mechanics involved in teaching high level pitching and just don't care to know/learn for whatever reason.............But would just like the world to know that "this ain't nothin new"............

In Other Words............Start your own thread to tell the world your "thoughts/opinions" that basically LACK CONTENT, but are full of OPINION..........And stay out of the way of people who are on a quest for KNOWLEDGE in threads that are ALL ABOUT CONTENT.........

Here's what I do know..........I was thanked 60 times in first 3 posts WITH CONTENT I made here on this subject. This thread has almost 22,000 views..........It is a STICKY here for a reason, and I'm honored because of that.........

And THEN THERE IS YOU Screwball..........OPEN YOUR EYES...........

The board will thank you for that............And so will I..........

TPG & OILF - I was right there in your camp for most of the timeframe of this thread and my existence in this forum. For months I saw this IR thread as nothing more than micro-analysis of natural-pitching minutia. BUT then BM convinced me that in my little microcosm I have not been exposed to the ineffectiveness of the masses of those out there in the country that are trying to pitch and teach pitching. (I assume it’s evident too by all the thankers & followers on this thread)

In my little microcosm I have seen pitchers get some HE teachings at times but through I guess just their natural athleticism and their overpowering desire to throw the ball faster they just morph into an IR practitioner,… even when they have some inefficient PC teachings.

But BM has me understand now that there are those pitching students out there that need to have this IR tutorial to get them fully into IR that otherwise they somehow couldn’t on their own (maybe this is the indictment on “bad” pitching coaches out there – the ones who dictate too many bad principles).

So I know I am in a little SB market and I have seen a little markets few best pitchers come to be. But then I ask myself “what ever happened to Sally that was sooo promising as an 10 yr old back in Little League”. Then I think to myself “ahha,…this could have been one of those that just never naturally graduated to the whip of IR and could never get that ball over 45mph”…..Then I think that maybe if her parents or her PC would have bought into the importance of recognizing and graduating to IR they might have also made it to the next level…..?

Just food for thought on understanding this thread a bit more maybe…..

RubberBiscuit said:

But BM has me understand now that there are those pitching students out there that need to have this IR tutorial to get them fully into IR that otherwise they somehow couldn’t on their own (maybe this is the indictment on “bad” pitching coaches out there – the ones who dictate too many bad principles).

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Many times a week DD and I will set down in front of the computer and read and discuss DFP threads. At 15, my DD understands the phrase Internal Rotation and its acronym IR as it relates to both pitching and hitting. She has viewed slow motion video of the best pitchers. She has become a student of pitching and hitting, as have I.

DD practices at a facility in a pitching lane right next to where lessons are given. At our time slot, there is a 10U girl taking lessons from a PC who has her performing K drills and constantly instructs her to start with the ball facing second, push it down the circle, slam the hips closed and finish with her elbow pointing at the catcher. I have personally witnessed this 10U student throw with IR immediately followed by orders from her instructor to get her hand behind the ball and straighten her arm out. In my area this is more the norm than the exception.

RB, it is not that over time (if they stick with pitching) they couldn't develop IR on their own. This is a site, this is a thread, where parents come to have their eyes opened to the difference between their paid-for-instruction and how the best actually pitch. I stumbled on this site several years ago when searching for windmill pitching styles because my DDs pitching at the time (step, slam the door, push down the circle, finish HE) didn't resemble what I was watching during a televised WCWS game. Had we not found the Internal Rotation sticky in 2010, I'd probably be on a soccer or basketball forum right now.

Objectivity requires us to put aside preconceptions and remain always curious. Those who are incapable of this....well, their loss, and those who are associated with them.

Out in Left Field said:

You lost me on how kids benefit from adults yakking and controlling the process whichever way someone thinks is right at the time (it seems to always be changing) over letting kids learn by mimicking, figuring it out in a natural way, and owning the skills?

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I've changed much of the handouts I give pitcher/parents/coaches based on your advice, but still have to say, there is definitely a balance of molding and exploring. The process can be collaborative, fun and guided--all at the same time. Just because adults love the technical blah blah, doesn't need to mean our interaction with our kids is totally technical, forced and drilled into utter boredom. I'm confident that there are many good instructors, coaches and parents that can work WITH their kids to build the skill-set needed to become good pitchers. The Grail is finding that perfect mix of kid, coach and parent. Until then, it's working constantly to learn and grow... That's the one thing I can count on for sure! It never ends...

Just wanted to make sure I had something correct. The liberty drill has an up together, down together feel to it. During the show it, throw it are we pausing at the 12 o'clock position? Also are we not really using the glove arm in this drill? Or does it also have an up together, down together feel to it? Thanks for the help!

Just look at the views of this thread....OVER 21,000! Must be one of the, if not the, most valuable thread here.

Doug Romrell said:

Just look at the views of this thread....OVER 21,000! Must be one of the, if not the, most valuable thread here.

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And those are just the views that occured prior to the system change! Who knows how many more have read it since.

Of course, I can only imagine what the effect would be if any and all coaching types were to read through it. POSITIVE, POSITIVE, POSITIVE!

Spartans21 said:

Just wanted to make sure I had something correct. The liberty drill has an up together, down together feel to it.

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Because we are only focusing on training I/R, we can limit the amount of glove arm action. Too much action takes the focus off the what the throwing arm/hand is doing. Anytime there is a drill with NO pause, the glove arm will act as a balance to the throwing side action..........That's ok. Just don't FORCE the glove arm to "mimic" the throwing arm during the drill.

During the show it, throw it are we pausing at the 12 o'clock position? Also are we not really using the glove arm in this drill? Or does it also have an up together, down together feel to it? Thanks for the help!

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The pause at the top allows the instructor and student to ensure the ball is facing forward at the top. It also allows the student to "feel" the proper pull-down motion with a "loaded forearm" that has the palm facing some degree of upward vs. downward.

Again, because there is a pause, and the focus is on training whip, glove action is limited to a small/relaxed balancing motion. We don't want the drill to focus on "the glove arm doing exactly what the throwing arm does".......

Just a note.......I'm not an advocate of focusing any training on making sure the glove arm does "as much" as the throwing arm......The glove arm will do what it does naturally to balance the system.........Some need more, some need less.......