Swing down

[Work=wins]

How important is hip angle to this discussion? If your hip angle is up you get more behind the ball and swing up.

yep. That would be a shifting/posture issue. Hips should be closer to level on the move out which should leverage the hips early.

 

[Shawn]

Julray

What makes you think the back leg is used differently between between the the two theories? Only TDS, W=W and you think their different.

So let’s start over. I think both of these swings are on off speed pitches. I’ll post more of the swings as we discuss.

I know you think the torso/core is the driver and I once believed that too. I’m not saying the torso is not used, I just no longer believe in it the same as you.

So what is the launch position? We can start there.

I’m being serious now. I didn’t even call TDS as STD. lol

 

[Shawn]

I always wished this swing clip had the full motion.

 

[julray]

Julray

You can preset the load if you want and then swing down.

It doesn’t seem like you want to know the truth. So yes your just a theorist like STD.

I'm in good company then, ARod, Trout, Pujois, Yelich, Cruz and all the others... we are all theorist, and Shawn's the expert.

 

[FP26]

Ok thanks, Can you please define your understanding of how the "Barrel is launched" in an arc?

Sorry for the delay. It's a beautiful day here in PA so I figured I would take advantage of the nice weather and cut my lawn...

First of all, before we discuss launching the barrel, I believe it is important to first discuss how we get there...

As Donaldson makes his forward move, I would like to point out two things. 1) Notice how the pelvic girdle turns. almost as if he is opening up towards the pitcher. 2) Also notice his rear arm going back, sort of towards where the dugout would be behind him. In my opinion all good hitters have a combination of these two moves to some degree. Some will have more of one. Some will have more of the other. Much of that will depend on the hitter's personal range of motion. In any event, the hitter is getting to "max stretch" at this point. There is a stretch starting in his hips, going through his core, and ultimately concluding in his back (scap area). Some people will focus more on what's referred to as the "SCIP axis", which is primarily a rear-legged type stretch, starting in the rear hip/upper leg and ending in the rear scap. Some will include the entire core and/or torso when they discuss this. I really don't have an issue with either adaptation, as I believe if you get into this type of pass through position prior to launch, what muscles are and are not involved doesn't seem that important to me. Ultimately this would be what I consider the launch position. Honestly, the clip may need another frame or so...

This popular clip of Manny is showing the same thing in my opinion. Lower half and upper half being stretched against each other. Pelvic girdle turning some. Scap activating...

At launch, the body works in unison to deliver the barrel to the ball. The rear elbow drops while the barrel simultaneously begins to turn. If you want to say the hands are turning it, that's fine. If you want to say the scap is lowering the arm while the hands maintain the hinge angle, that's fine too. As with most other concepts, hinge angle has been beaten to death because of people's tendency to over exaggerate things. Anyway, as the rear elbow is dropping the front arm will typically maintain it's distance from the chest. This process essentially creates the arc that I am referring to.

JMO / YMMV

 

[julray]

I'm out. I'll leave this wonderful, but ultimately pointless conversation with a video of last nights hitting session with my one and
only student. 12u hitter (DD) who was taught to turn the barrel behind the ball. No "down through", no "core contraction".

I'm happy with her progress and she is happy, which is all that really matters.

Peace and Love, Peace and Love

Best wishes to you and your DD, I wish her all the success in the world and lots of good memories. I won't bring our differences in approach into my comments, but there is some bat drag you may want to address.. just my two cents.

 

[julray]

In those two specific clips, you're showing two different timeframes of the "tip and rip" process.

Vladdy is un-tipping, beginning to "rip", and TTB, to begin unloading and swinging the bat (not yet launching it), and Bo is still "tipping" his bat/barrel, and loading, he's yet to start the unloading/swinging, ie "rip" process.

Simply not true... Bichette does not get to this un-tipping that you are referring to... here is the complete load to toe touch, it does not happen. Both Bichette and Vladdy get there hands to the same location at FYB, and then it's down to... or direct to(depends on pitch location).

Bo Raising the barrel to launch position, from here it's down to, no un-tipping during the move out


Vladdy, lowers the barrel to get hands to launch position, from here it's down to, un-tipping during the move out


Style...

 

[Shawn]

Julray

You think your the only one who has tried to make the torso the engine and the legs the supporters? I tried it, it’s a dead end. It will only make your swing worse. Look at Sean Dixon’s swing. Then tell me the torso runs everything and the legs are just supporters.

If the legs are the supporters, then why does the back knee coming down and in always lead?

 

[Shawn]

I'm in good company then, ARod, Trout, Pujois, Yelich, Cruz and all the others... we are all theorist, and Shawn's the expert.

If you believe in they way they demonstrate a swing, then yes I’m the expert.

 

[julray]

I always wished this swing clip had the full motion.

John Olerud, one of the sweetest smoothest swings you'll ever see.


Not specifically for you Shawn, but also like to point out, notice there's not tipping or un-tipping, that's because Olerud's barrel/hands are already in the position that both Bo and Vladdy get to @ launch