DD's opening front shoulder.

[Shawn]

You said a few pages back that time to contact was the most important metric to you. To me early bat speed will improve that since I don't see why
a) early bat speed means you cannot have good bat speed at contact (time to contact is effected by the whole velocity profile over the complete bat path...eg. that whole integral thing I talked about ) and
b) early bat speed will hinder any of the small (imo) adjustments which are made after launch.

The Blast sensor measures early batspeed or how quickly you accelerate from load into the swing. You can look at all three metrics, time to contact (initiation to contact), batspeed, rotational acceleration ('early batspeed or how long it takes you to go from load and acceleration into the swing).

 

[Bobby Shirer]

[GooQUOTE="pattar, post: 539524, member: 14754"]
In all good hitters I see the barrel accelerating at launch, including Rendon. I also want a barrel path which resembles this:

You can call that on plane early, on plane late or bobbycock..don't really care. Of course my DD could have this bat path and still not be able to hit a pitcher with a 100MPH fastball and a 85 MPH CU ..you know why? Because her 75 lb body wouldn't be able to generate enough bat speed throughout this path, including at launch, to give her enough time to be able to accurately read the pitch speed/location.
[/QUOTE]
Good news... your 75lb dd won't be facing any 100mph fb or even 85 mph cu ever!

 

[_MIA_]

Good news... your 75lb dd won't be facing any 100mph fb or even 85 mph cu ever!

She eventually will face (if she continues to play) a 65MPH fastball and a 50 MPH CU from 45 ft which is close
in terms of difficulty.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

So you agree that being able to recognizing pitch loation/speed is good. Would you be able to better recognize pitches if you could wait a little longer to decide to swing? If yes, given that the time the ball takes to the plate is fixed, a person who has a better time to contact, e.g. the amount of time from launch(or decision to swing perhaps) to contact, would be able to better recognize a pitch, yes? Now, for the 115th time, time to contact is a function of bat speed throughout the complete barrel path, not just at contact. Hence early bat speed gives one an advantage in that they will be able to better recognize a pitch location/speed before deciding to swing (not move out, actually swing the bat).

I am also not buying the idea that early batspeed hinders any small (imo) adjustments which may need to be made after launch since I know you will come back with that.

Ok I am done now, going to do some actual work and then go to the gym

What's being missed here is that the early bat speed hasn't been committed to being an actual swing. It's movement away from the ball and during that time the pitch is still being read and the swing can be adjusted or halted. It's a longer path but it's started earlier while allowing the bat to not get out of the zone. Meanwhile, those direct to the ball guys are sitting and waiting with zero bat speed. If they spent the same amount of time developing batspeed along their direct path to the ball, they would be out of the zone. So they delay the start of their swing and work hard to avoid pulling off the ball. Which is the reason we're all here because the op asked about pulling off the ball.
The answer is: create a longer swing by adding length to the beginning of the swing (away from the ball) instead of delaying the start or trying to be longer at the end by not pulling the shoulder out (which really can only happen with longer arms) or getting extension.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

She eventually will face (if she continues to play) a 65MPH fastball and a 50 MPH CU from 45 ft which is close
in terms of difficulty.

She'll also have a more than a few meals between now and then.
With good coaching and some hard work she'll develop a swing like my dd .... consistently mid 80s. Nobody could throw the ball past her.

 

[Work=wins]

I stand in the middle. The swing has changed. I was watching 1988 Dodgers on mlb tv the other day. Mickey Hatcher and Scocia had chopping down swings with little power. Gibsons swing was a little more launch angle.

All hitters ttb. Can it be over done? Dump the barrel and hit off back foot/ rotate over rear hip socket? Yes and yes. Especially if you are trying to instructed 10 or 12 y/o girls.

I like JD Martinez swing as model. He ttb a little latter and hits the ball out front. Very abalanced.

I like Donaldsons swing too.

W=W you say the hands set the swing plane. I think the spine angle and shoulders plane the swing. Hands are just making fine tunnings/adjustments when hitters timing isnt perfect.
Most hitters today are swinging for the fence. Even with 2 strikes their swings slow very little. I don't really like it but that's where the game has gone. The swing you are advocating is from days gone by.

LA Angels have a guy named David Fletcher. He had a breakout year. He played SS 3rd base 2nd base and OF and is the emergency catcher for the Angels. Highly entertaining gritty player hits for average but his value isn't as high as a guy who hits 30 plus HRs and strikes out 100 plus times. I wish he was considered more valuable but the game and swing have changed.

I never liked using Bonds swing as a model. He was a very large man. The argument that hitting off back foot give hitter longer time to see pitch doesnt work for a 10 year old because they are not strong enough to hit off their back foot. If BB swung like JD he would have hit the ball 600 feet. LOL

I don’t think the swing has changed. I think bad info is being used. Guys like Yelich, Arod, Trout and Miggy are on video saying so. Launch angle ‘swings’ to me are the new PEDs. They are trying to get paid. No crime in that. But to youngsters learning the swing. Those mechanics won’t play imo.

As far as the hands go... what are we swinging? The bat right? So the body sets the posture of the attack or the base. But the object being swung is the bat so wherever the hands release the bat will be the swing plane. If that wasn’t so, dropping your hands wouldn’t be a thing right? But I understand what you mean. The balance and posture(spine) sets the hands up to set the plane of the swing... You can’t be consistent without both.

At least that how I see it with the best hitters.. Even JD says he sets the plane with his front elbow.. which is directly connected to the front hand. Right?



‘Strike the ball’ great cue !!!

 

[Shawn]

I'm using the heavy bag combined with the Blast sensor. It measures both acceleration and bat speed at contact. It's a form of backwards chaining, meaning there is no goal of trying to hit a ball. You simple swing into the heavy bag as quickly/short as possible. So, you are just focusing and the swing being quick. Then when hitting a ball you simple take the same swing and rely on the incredible machine God created. You don't feel for the ball, you just swing and rely on coordination or the "force". It's like shooting a basketball, you relying on a force generation/coordination thing that ends with the ball going into the basket.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Blast sensor measures time to ball. Not sure how it does it or if it is accurate. What is a good time? Think my 12 y/o DD is at .18. I generally just look at batspeed. She is at 46 to 48. She is on the smaller side. Under 80 lbs.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Also Shawn, what do you think of blast factor reading. Doesnt seem to be accurate.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Acceleration is speed over time. That’s the equation. It’s Mass x Acceleration. The barrel is nothing until it is accelerated. The way it’s accelerated is the answer. Do you want max speed and a longer time to impact or acceleration with a speed component with a shorter route and shorter to contact time? The pros all say they want to be ‘short to the ball’ so I guess we have our answer to our question. Right?

The barrel path you speak of is fast. But not adjustable. You have said you don’t need adjustability because you have a fast barrel. Lets leave it at that. I’ll agree to disagree. I think hitting the ball at the 18gold level and up is not that simple.

Do you want to max out your speed every swing? Or do you want to have conservation of energy to be shorter to the target in a variabled environment with late moving targets and changes of speeds of those targets?

When you release the barrel behind you or created max speed early you have spent all your energy in the swing earlier with a longer route to the ball within a variabled environment. Doesn’t equate.

If it were a boxing match. The equivalent would be throwing haymakers every punch and limiting your defense and counter punching opportunities. As opposed to sticking and moving and landing straight rights and jabs all night. Racking up the ‘hits’ and the points. You might land some haymakers and have a knock down or 2. But you leave yourself susceptible to counters and big punches, all night long which usually ends with the ‘big puncher’ on the floor because of his aggressive tendencies. Mayweather and Jones Jr. will be/are HOFers because of this.

Acceleration is CHANGE OF SPEED over time. Nothing to do with mass.
The ball doesn't care what the starting speed of the bat is or when it started. The transfer of energy is entirely dependant on mass x speed.
If I drive my car all the way to your house and only accelerate at 1/2 mph per hour, the rate of acceleration is very slow but the speed when I hit your house will be very great because of the time in travel.
And yes I want to max out the bat speed every time because 3 little jabs is all I'm going to get in a ball game and walking back to the dugout sucks.
I'm swinging maxed out every time. In all levels but especially at the higher levels, you may only get one opening to do some damage. Make sure you're jogging the bases instead of standing on first.
In 2018 LSU had a good team batting avg but way below avg runs per game. Lots of players getting to first but none crossing the plate. You go 3 for 3 and it's a meaningless stat unless your teammates can get timely hits. But then you're moving to second base and all the while there's a pitcher and 8 others trying to send you to the dugout. I like the one on one odds. Me against the pitcher. He makes a mistake, I'm going to make him pay.
Watch MMA. One guy sticks and jabs and wrestles his a$$ off but the other guy throws and lands one haymaker. Fight's over. The judges have no say.

I recall a game my dd played. Oppo pitcher has a devasting rise ball and mixes in other stuff. Strikes out the side every inning. It's late and we're down 3 zip. Our batters become patient and draw 2 walks. 2 on and 2 out. Ground ball to short and she flips to 3rd, late. Bases loaded 2 out. Batter in the box knows the rise ball is the go to and she's got a 2-2 count, the balls were curves in and away off the plate, the strikes- both riseballs. Pitcher throws the rise to a batter who's looking for the rise and swinging for the fence.
They never found that ball.
We win 4-3.
If the batter throws a jab....who knows? Maybe we need 3 more successful jabs? How many mistakes does the team in the field, pitcher plus 8 need to make so we win?
My batters are there to do damage. No fence too far!