Take a Look..........

[javasource]

The "Fastpitch Softball: The Windmill Pitcher" by Barry Sammons does have stationary snap drills in the Appendix... which is unfortunate. But.. it actually addresses arm whip in the text... that is... much better than most sources that followed. It even has pretty illustrations showing internal rotation... which is rare, in a book... and in life, in general.

Here is one of his illustrations for arm whip:

To learn feel of the rotating action of the pitching arm during the arm whip, perform the internal shoulder rotation exercise described in Appendix A. - Fastpitch Softball: The Windmill Pitcher, Barry Sammons, 1997

Here is Appendix A (was actually misprinted as Appendix D...) Look familiar... ?

And here are some more direct quotes from Sammons regarding Arm whip... or what we call i/r...

... just prior to the arm whip the angular orientation of the upper arm leads the angular positions of the lower arm and hand. That hand trails because the wrist is "cocked" and the lower arm trails because the elbow is slightly bent and the arm is pronated, or twisted to the open orientation.

... the rotation of the upper arm segment is decelerated by the shoulder muscles. As when the handle of a whip is suddenly stopped, the angular velocity of the lower arm increases and it catches up with the angle of the upper arm...

... the lower arm straightens and rotates closed (for most pitches) during this phase of the arm whip...

A key factor in this mechanism which is often overlooked by those who direct all their attention to the wrist snap is flexibility at the elbow. - Fastpitch Softball: The Windmill Pitcher, Barry Sammons, 1997

Although I'm not a huge proponent of "cocking" the wrist... this is pretty spot on...

 

[javasource]

... and even addresses a little brush interference...

Make sure the hand passes very close to the hip...
... To throw the ball more accurately it must be released at the proper moment as the hand passes by the hip. This release point is learned by the "feel" of the hand passing by the hip, and the closer the hand is to the hip the better. Indeed, the hand and the forearm may actually brush loose clothing as they pass by the release point. Pitchers will occasionally hit their hip, but I do not teach intentionally hitting the hip on every pitch.

He actually removes emphasis from wrist snap 'training' at times:

When the arm whip action is proper, the wrist snap happens quite naturally on the end of the "whip" and the pitcher does not have to make a great effort.

Kinda cool... just thought I'd share.

 

[Rick Pauly]

IMO most examples of wrist flip demos I've seen emulate the position and timing of hand/wrist rotation similar to a change up (which is significantly earlier than a fastball rotation)........so for those who do wrist flips I fear a negative to what they think they are accomplishing. You are training how to throw slow.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Hey! I had a copy of that Barry Sammons pitching book back 15 years ago. He even use to post once in awhile on that old fastpitch blog that was run by some guy in California (can't remember his name or the name of the site).

As I remember, he drew those. I think he had drafting experience.

Would this be him.... Barry E. Sammons, Milwaukee, WI, Retired Partner

 

[javasource]

IMO most examples of wrist flip demos I've seen emulate the position and timing of hand/wrist rotation similar to a change up (which is significantly earlier than a fastball rotation)........so for those who do wrist flips I fear a negative to what they think they are accomplishing. You are training how to throw slow.

So true... and in addition, often creating a degree of tension (through 'cocking')... that typically manifests itself in another change-up technique... creating paralysis of the final distal component... the hand/fingers.

Doug... yep. That's him. Pitcher turned lawyer...

 

[WillyT812]

CoachScott.....not a peep.

 

[FrozenRope]

Didn't make a peep. Even as she was corrected for doing the "Lock It In" drill instead of the recommended Wrist snaps. And "Liberty" replaced the K-Drills as they were instructing.

I didn't want to be "That Guy" that has 18 months of knowledge correcting a woman that has been doing it for 20 years. That's a no win if you ask me.

So, second Saturday of the pitching clinic. They went 1 by 1 down the line and handed the girls a Rev Fire ball. This class had about 13 kids. About 6 were sub Junior High age and the rest Junior High... I think one was High School age. They had them throw 2 FB's and a Change. DD hit 50-50-32. All the other sub JH kids from what I heard were 42-46. During a break, the coach came up to me and said she was really impressed. She said something like, "her mechanics are very different from what I teach on the FB, but it looks like it works for her. I just wish I could get her to follow through and rip those hips into the pitch....she'd hit mid 50's" I explained to her what she was taught and why, and I demonstrated it for her and I give her credit...she talked it over with me with a relatively open mind....and said..."Who know's...you may be right and I may be wrong....none of the other young ones hit 50". She did play the injury card....to an extent. Advised me to listen for complaints about elbow or shoulder pain.... I told her she's been doing it for a year and a half...and she ALWAYS loses her legs before she does her arm. She finished the conversation with "I wont mess with her on the FB mechanics... I thanked her and told her we were there primarliy to be introduced to some of the movement pitches. SEE!!! We CAN all just get along.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Elbowy and IRy live together in perfectly harmony.

 

[WaSpeed02]

I thanked her and told her we were there primarliy to be introduced to some of the movement pitches. SEE!!! We CAN all just get along.

Meh. Listen, man, you have to make a decision. It's us against them. There's no room for ecumenism (to insert religious language) when it comes to teenage girls and pitching.

 

[FrozenRope]

Meh. Listen, man, you have to make a decision. It's us against them. There's no room for ecumenism (to insert religious language) when it comes to teenage girls and pitching.

LoL.... That's cult talk there!! Bottom line is this....by talking with her and seeing her interact with the kids.....she truly believes that she is teaching the best method. She's passionate in what she does. She's not just there raising money for the program. She LOVES what she does. It's obvious. I pointed her to the Jennie Finch sports science vid and the Amanda Scarborough Powerdrive vid. She said she would check them out and would touch base with me next week. Who knows....maybe she'll see the light. We talked a little bit about a few of HER pitchers as well. One is a true POWER pitcher. Granted...this is a D3 school. This girl is 6-2 Freshman and can BRING it. She did a demo pitch on the Rev Fire and hit 64. I could tell after the first pitch....the HE finish was a "fool the coach" finish. She doesn't bowl. She has an amazingly long lever and one hell of a whip at the end of it. I am going to bring my cam to the session next week and ask her if I can take a quick vid of her mechanics on the FB. Anyone wanna guess what I'll see?