Need Help

[BoardMember]

Don't be copping on your DD's mechanics Sqeeze. They ain't bad at all. But I need more then "dance shoes in the backyard" to peak my interest.......I actually meant to tell you that. Go to a field with a mound. Or use a pitching mat with a rubber. Put on the cleats. Get me a front view, side view and rear view. One pitch each.........Post the clips to Youtube and I'll download them. Send the links to the clips to me via PM, and we'll get something started........

John

Oh crap, now Skinner knows my first name..........

 

[JJsqueeze]

Thanks big guy...you made my day.

 

[abbygale]

Oh crap, now everyone knows your email address.

Bet he get's a lot of "Please ignore" messages from people copying that info into their address book.

 

[halskinner]

Bill,

you really need to stop letting Boardmember pull your strings. It isnt very becoming.

You have your own website to teach whatever you want and say whatever you want. Good for you.

Someone told me you have pitched for other countries and were successful in that effort too. Good for you. Dont know if I would have made the USA Mens teaam if I would have tried. I would like to think they would have been impressed. However, if I had tried out and made the team, I would have NEVER played against the USA for another country. You apperently did.

Withg the exception of a riseball grip my Dad shoed me when I was quite young and another movement pitch (Slider) that a fortmer MLB minor league player taught me, I had to learn everything else I know from trial and error. I watched hundreds ofd Men pitches when I was youg. I tried to imitate then at home. My teachers were those pitchers. Then it was throwing used balls against a concrete block wall in my backyard. Later a concrete handball court wall at school.

Did I experiment with pitching to learn different ways to make a pitch move. YUP. Did I later find out that my methodsd worked really well with students I worked with? YUP My biggestcom pliment came from professional coaches that said my students learned and advanced SO QUICKLY that they were amazed. Thats where my 'Pride' lies.

Did I invent everything I teach? Heckl no, I have said that many times. Did I have to come up with different waysd to quickly and simply learn and teach them? YUP. Did I come up with names for these pitches and tactics My book and I teach? Some yes, some no. Have I been shown a way to throw a particular riseball, experimented with it and discovered how to throw it as an awesome curveball? Yes I did, but, I didnt name it, two 12 year old students gave it its name many years ago, not me.


I will drop a few names on yhou. Mitch Munthe, Chuck Hamilton, Pete Turner, Steve Padilla. You might recognize the namess from the USA Mens teams from several years back. These are guys that played on my team or played against at almost every turney. Mitch and Chuck are in the picture on my avatar. If you can contact them, ask them about me as a pitcher. Also ask them to recall how fast I was clocked throwing in that national tourney of 1979. Those numbers were displayed on the back of the TV trucks backed up to the centerfield fence They played on and later coached the USA mens team, you should be able to contact them. At least I would think you could contact them.

Good luck to you.

 

[BoardMember]

BoardMember, I've got that clip of Hillhouse. He definitely has more explosive movement toward the target and thus has a lot more energy into the throw just after he lands. DD's foot is darn near still on the rubber when she lands.

You're DD has great leg drive. She pushes FROM, not pitches FROM the rubber. Very good. Her legs are long. Don't sweat that at all..........

Further, his arm is not quite as bent from 12:00 to 9:00.

They are very close in elbow bend from 11:00 to 9:00 behind her.

It's this segment that concerns me the most........In the first frame her arm is nice and extended but not locked. Then something happens. Can you tell me what she's doing to the ball in the frames following that is causing the severe bend in her elbow over the top???

Also, a split second after release, it looks as though her hand is cupped, which bothers me for some reason. If the ball were to come off her finger pads and tips, I don't think I should see a cupped hand the instant after her release.

After we work out the first topic, I'll be asking you to tell me the difference in the ball/hand position between Bill and DD in the last frame of this clip:

Here's a hint: Late Lag vs. early turn to push and losing lag.........

 

[BoardMember]

I will drop a few names on yhou. Mitch Munthe, Chuck Hamilton, Pete Turner, Steve Padilla. You might recognize the namess from the USA Mens teams from several years back. These are guys that played on my team or played against at almost every turney. Mitch and Chuck are in the picture on my avatar. If you can contact them, ask them about me as a pitcher. Also ask them to recall how fast I was clocked throwing in that national tourney of 1979. Those numbers were displayed on the back of the TV trucks backed up to the centerfield fence They played on and later coached the USA mens team, you should be able to contact them. At least I would think you could contact them.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.........

BTW, I'm leaving on a week long golf vacation in the mountains with 12 buddies. Maybe be out of touch for a while till I return..........I also went pee before I posted this..........

Anything else about me you need to know???.........

 

[Doug Romrell]

Okay, BoardMember, regarding your first question....

I think it's a screwed up instruction from me. I've tried to get her to bring the ball up through her vision, AND try to get her bicep close to her ear. The problem is, in her interpretation of this, I think she believes the ball must stay close to her head as the ball is directly over her head, thus resulting in more bend a the elbow over her head than Hillhouse. I'm thinking I need to point this out to her. I haven't yet.

Regarding your second point/question....

I have felt that just prior to release that she attempts to push the ball. I think there should be more lag just prior to release to help intensify the snap (forearm, wrist, hand, fingers). While I've taught her arm-whip, her wrist is fixed going into release, and it doesn't seem to bend until after release. I think we've got some real intensification of her speed if we can correct this.

By the way, the snap I'm talking about with the wrist isn't the hand-wave type, but rather simply having her throwing fingers cocked back/up leaving her forwarm untanned side out as in the picture. As I see it, it's hard to get the full benefit of the arm-whip without whipping the hand and fingers through with the proper (non-hand-waving) wrist-snap.

Maybe I'm off base, but I think it might help to have her turn the ball more so that it points upward a bit more rather than toward 3rd base. Maybe that's not the solution though.

 

[BoardMember]

Okay, BoardMember, regarding your first question....

I think it's a screwed up instruction from me. I've tried to get her to bring the ball up through her vision, AND try to get her bicep close to her ear. The problem is, in her interpretation of this, I think she believes the ball must stay close to her head as the ball is directly over her head, thus resulting in more bend a the elbow over her head than Hillhouse. I'm thinking I need to point this out to her. I haven't yet.

"Up Through Her Vision" is not a term I'm familiar with, although I can understand the concept of it's meaning. However, I also think there could be some confusion as to what it really means........Let me say this. "Up through the vision" does NOT MEAN: Bring the ball up directly in front of your entire face"..........It means that if the shoulders are turning to about 45 -75 degrees open as the ball passes parallel to the ground in front of you, you should be able to SEE THE BALL with your eyes DIRECTLY in front and toward the target. The ball should NEVER pass LITERALLY BETWEEN YOUR ENTIRE FACE AND YOUR TARGET..........

The idea of this is to promote a straight toward the target arm circle EVEN THOUGH the shoulders are open, which brings the ball close to the vision line..........Some kids arm circle follows the shoulder line, instead of the target. When the shoulders open before the arm reaches the vision line, the circle can go OUT away from the body and target line as it follows the shoulder line. This cue will teach them to keep the arm circle constantly in line with the target REGARDLESS of the position of the shoulder line. The shoulder can open and close, but the arm circle remains constantly in line with the target........

Cat has one of the most open mechanics on the planet. The ball never passes DIRECTLY between her face and the target.

I think its a good cue. But like any other cue or drill, in the wrong hands it can be as bad as it is good...........

What concerns me about the result of this is that your DD is turning her fingers INSIDE THE BALL on the way up the circle..........This is NOT GOOD........Watch carefully what happens:

This move ALONE will create a horizontal bent at the elbow joint.

She needs to keep the ball facing DOWN through 3:00 in front of her, then FOWARD at 12:00 above her head, with a RELAXED elbow, NOT a BENT ELBOW. Never twisting the ball inwards or outwards between 3:00 in front and 12:00 above.............

Regarding your second point/question....

I have felt that just prior to release that she attempts to push the ball. I think there should be more lag just prior to release to help intensify the snap (forearm, wrist, hand, fingers). While I've taught her arm-whip, her wrist is fixed going into release, and it doesn't seem to bend until after release. I think we've got some real intensification of her speed if we can correct this.

By the way, the snap I'm talking about with the wrist isn't the hand-wave type, but rather simply having her throwing fingers cocked back/up leaving her forwarm untanned side out as in the picture. As I see it, it's hard to get the full benefit of the arm-whip without whipping the hand and fingers through with the proper (non-hand-waving) wrist-snap.

Maybe I'm off base, but I think it might help to have her turn the ball more so that it points upward a bit more rather than toward 3rd base. Maybe that's not the solution though.

Lets get the terms straight so we're on the same page........

On the left is a Flexed wrist. On the right is an extended wrist, which is also called "Dorsi-Flexed" wrist.......

NEVER extend (dorsi-flex) the wrist in the front half of the circle.........If anything the wrist should be slightly flexed. (See Hillhouse Above). Notice his wrist is NEVER extended (dorsi-flexed) past parallel with the forearm.......And in fact is slightly flexed almost the entire circle........

There are certain change ups and drops and crops that work better with a dorsi-flexed wrist.......But that happens as the ball is past 12:00........Later in the sequence..........

 

[Doug Romrell]

Amazing! Turning her fingers inside the ball on the way up causes the near-horizontal forearm over her head. Keeping the fingers from getting inside the ball during this phase of the arm circle by using more wrist "flex" would prevent the excessive bend in the elbow directly over her head. This is a subtle and very doable adjustment, but could add a great deal to her improving her pitching. While we have worked on a slightly "flexed" wrist when the ball is "on the way up," we haven't really focused on it that much, as I haven't understood it until just now. Chalk one of for a true learning moment. Not that there haven't been many already in this thread. This learning moment is currently at the top of the list!

 

[BoardMember]

Excellent.........