Winning versus Having Fun

[Screwball]

Why would any coach say "we are playing to have fun and not to win?

Winning is NOT the opposite of fun and losing is certainly NOT fun. You learn nothing if you are NOT there to have fun and win.

So let's stop teaching the first line as a philosophy.

I think it allows the coaches to just "do nothing" rather than learn how to put the team together, weaker pieces and all, and still win.

I think it teaches are kids the wrong message yet I hear this from dads all the time. Please explain how being a 'Type A,' 'over focused' athlete who has tantrums when losing succeeds?

Please explain why it is fun to set low expectations for your team if you chose the so-called fun route?

I feel this is why girls, in particular, quit sports.

If you listen to the Olympic athletes, several commented that they did not excel until they let go and had fun.

Let's think about this. Thoughts.

 

[nanotech14]

Your words ring true screwball,my dd last year had the best year in softball she has ever had.She played to win,but she kept it fun and I sat back and watched,no negative comments from me.If she did something wrong,we talk about what we needed to work on,later the next day,not during the game or the weekend of games.The key words in that sentence are "we talked" a relaxed sitting on the porch swing talk,if you no what I mean.I also say what we needed to work on,I say it like that because,I very well could be the issue,when I showed her how to do something,and guess what many of times.I was the problem,I didnt teach her right and was not afraid to tell her the way I showed her was the wrong way.

Emily and I have learned so much about each other and this great game together.I have seen Emily swing at a high pitch a few times last year and she turns and looks at me and smiles.I smile back at her with that "it happens smile"she gets back in there and goes back to work.I guess i could of yelled "dont swing at the high ones",but she knows that and besides sometimes those pitches look like a beachball coming in.I quess what Iam saying is that winning and fun can go hand and hand.Emily doesnt like to lose ,who does? But she knows how to lose with grace,she has told many of girls on the winning team and losing team after the game how well she thinks they played.She also has many of girls and coaches on other teams come up to her and talk to her and tell her they like the way she plays the game, and it makes me proud of her, of course Iam proud of her no matter what.

 

[quincy]

Hearing coaches, not the right term, berate players when they have not been the taught the right thing to do to no “fun”. Might have practiced it once in practice, if at all, and the payer will know what to do in a game situation.

When your DD has not won in a game in over a year it is hard not to say have fun out there and actually mean it.

 

[David Carter]

When I coach I always have two goals Do your best and have fun.

First losing is not fun and it is hard to have fun if you are not winning at least some of the time.

Doing your best is where I always try to drive things home, when you don't have your head in the game and are making silly mistakes I can look at the girls and simply ask "was that your best?" it is then clear to them that we both know they can do better and that is exactly what I now expect them to go do.

Winning can't be too important because you can have the girls do there best and simply lose to a better team, now it is up to the coaches to figure out can your do anything to improve the girls skill level to be better than that team, unfortunately sometimes the answer is no.

 

[sluggers]

I'm having a lot of time understanding your post...you are phrasing everything like the world is black or white.

Why would any coach say "we are playing to have fun and not to win?

Because most sports are played "for fun" and not to win.

Bowling alleys and golf courses are full of people playing a sport but aren't playing to win. I rode 30+ miles in a bicycle event today with 100 other riders...and I didn't try to win. The Boston Marathon has thousands of runners, but only a handful are trying to win. People are going to be playing volleyball and softball at countless family reunions this summer, and 99% aren't going to be playing to win.

The problem is differentiating between playing to have fun and playing to win. Sometimes it is appropriate to play to win, sometimes it isn't.

Winning is NOT the opposite of fun and losing is certainly NOT fun.

Winning is better than losing. But, I certainly have had fun losing. I played hoops one time with a guy who holds the all-time scoring record at Georgia Tech. Guess what? I lost...but I had a great time.

I played touch football in the snow when I was younger...most fun I ever had, and I don't have a clue about who won or lost.

You learn nothing if you are NOT there to have fun and win.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Read "Zen in the Art of Archery"...competition and winning is not the goal...doing something with excellence is the goal. Competition is a way to get to being excellent, but it is not the goal.

I feel this is why girls, in particular, quit sports.

this thing with gender differentiation gets boring. Unless you haven't noticed, most boys quit playing sports just like girls. Most kids (boys and girls) quit sports because either (1) they aren't good enough to play or (2) they find something they like more than the sport.

All athletes quit. It is just a question of when.

If you listen to the Olympic athletes, several commented that they did not excel until they let go and had fun.

This I gotta hear...

 

[marriard]

Why would any coach say "we are playing to have fun and not to win?

That is a bit of a straw-man argument. I know of very few coaches who are like this - mainly in t-ball and similar age competition where winning really is pointless. This is not a either/or argument. It is the coaches who don't realize that you can win AND have fun that are the issue.

Sometimes "Winning the actual game" isn't actually the real win - since you brought the Olympics up I will as well - a large number of athletes 'win' just by making the Olympics.

I find the right philosophy is good "We are playing and learning to be our absolute best while having fun - the winning and losing of games will take care of itself".

It is the long term journey of getting better and being as good as you can be. Winning in some form (even actual winning games) is going to be the a byproduct of this.

I am not trophy hunting and playing down for the sake of winning games. I'll play our team against the best we can competitively play against and above to help them become better.

 

[NVfishing]

I feel bad for Quincy's DD. There's no way losing for a year can be fun for any team. Something isn't right there and needs to be addressed by the parents.Are the coaches making the practices fun or are they drilling the girls over and over about what they are doing wrong? I don't think it's possible for a properly coached team to go that long without a win. The game is only fun when you are winning. I don't see girls crying after a game when they just won. The competition, being the best you can be. Striving to be better can all be fun if it's what the girl/boy wants. It's when the parents push it more than their child that it becomes problematic. My DD's team lost for the first time this year last week. The girls needed it. They started playing tight trying not to lose instead of trying to win. They came back in dramatic fashion in the championship game. Was a great way to do it and they definately had fun.

 

[sluggers]

14YOA is when the kids are freshman or sophomores in HS. In HS, everything is pretty much equal between boys and girls except for football. Football usually has an many participants as all the other sports combined. So, it wouldn't surprise me if more girls drop out of sports than boys at 14YOA--because many, many boys continue playing (or should I say practicing) football in HS.

I'd never go out even in an individual sport, unless it was to beat the competition or my previous score

Is beating your previous score "winning"?

(a) Not everyone is like you and (b) as you get older, you feel fortunate to match your previous best.

I don't how you guys do it with your attitudes.

My attitude: "Anything worth doing is worth doing well." Pretty crazy, I admit.

If your only goal is to win, then you only will play better than your competition. You may never achieve your true potential. (People don't set world records by trying to beat the competition. They set world records by pushing themselves to achieve perfection.)

If a kid wants to play softball, and enjoys playing the game, then that kid should play it as well as she can. Not because she is going to win or lose the game, but because that is the way it is supposed to be done. Anything short of that is cheating her.

Good coaches will stay out on the softball field until the stars come out if a kid wants to work and get better. If a player recognizes that a coach is trying to make her the best she can be, the player will walk through walls for the coach.

Coaching at the amateur level is *NOT* about winning a stupid game--it is about helping the player become the best she can be. Winning is a by-product of the coaches and players devoting themselves to excellence.

By the way, if you want to really compete, join the armed forces, law enforcement, ER or a child welfare agency. There, real people suffer real, substantial and long-lasting consequences for your success or failure. After that, you get the idea that everything else is simply play time.

 

[JAD]

With my DD team we either 'play to win', or we 'play to get better'. Some people use the term "play for fun" in place of "play to get better". In games we play to win we pitch or #1 or #2, put our best defense on the field, and bat 9. In games we "play to get better" we start our #3 or #4 pitcher (occasionally the #2). Girls may be playing in their secondary or third fielding position (cross training in case of injuries), and we bat everyone. Everyone likes to win, but sometimes you learn more from a loss than you do from a win, especially if you are "sandbagging" and playing below your teams talent level.

 

[PA SB Dad]

I've been fortunate to be coaching my DD's teams for the past 7 years (7 in rec + 4 in TB). There are different levels of expectations and goals for each level, and "having fun" and "winning" are not mutually exclusive. However, I do put more emphasis on winning in TB games, because we expect to be playing higher level competition, and one measure of success is wins (or improvement against clearly better opponents). I am a strong believer that it is important to teach players how to win in the more competitive levels of play, but not at the cost of making the team (or myself) miserable.

On the other hand, for rec ball, I've had many of the same set of girls in rec ball for the past 6 or 7 years, and have lost my share to TB or to school ball. Those that have continued to play rec (14U LL) are there because it is "fun" and they enjoy coming out to play. Realistically they are not good enough to make the local TB teams, and don't have the level of parental commitment to practice the sport year round, but they still love the sport. My hope is that they decide to play softball in HS (maybe not Varsity, but still on JVA or JVB).

I could have tried to win every game we played, and in doing so have one kid play every inning in RF and bat 9th, but I would have lost that kid years ago. That kid now understands how important she is in RF, backs up every play at 1B, and is rewarded every game with an inning or two at 2B, where she makes every play she is supposed to make. She loves the sport, is a great kid to have on the team, and is a pleasure to coach, but she would not have gotten this far had my emphasis been on winning every game and not developing her and having fun in the process.

In rec, we win the games we are supposed to win and play some tight competitive games against better teams, and I can't say that it is worth driving some kids away from the sport in an effort to win every game at this level. I give every kid that comes out an opportunity to contribute, and at some point each kid is recognized with a game all for an outstanding play or great hustle. I would gladly trade wins for that.