Winning versus Having Fun

[Chewy_06]

I think that the age & calibre have more to do with this than anything else. I read the OP and thought to myself, heck no this guy's way out in left by himself.

But, I also recognize my perspective on this is likely not the same - so, when i consider this, my opinions are also different. Here's why, I coach a 10u house team & a 10u select team. The house team - my objectives are simple, have fun and learn the game. At our parent meetings, invariably a parent will try to add "and to win" to my stated objectives - I quickly and delicately explain winning is NOT an objective - but, if we're effective at learning and having fun, we're sure that some wins will come. As part of this philosophy, we work hard at teaching and developing the girls. We also move them through defensive positions and we ensure that they all play equally.

Has it worked? Whether through luck, karma or perhaps having a great set of kids who absorbed like sponges and then applied their developing skills we had a very successful season and as a split 02/03 team, we took great pride in being mistaken frequently for an all 02 team.

The select team carries the third objective of winning - which drives unequal play time, restriction of positions - which in turn has created untold angst amongst parents (despite them having been told bluntly right upfront that this would happen when their kids were invited to participate).

The thing that is universal between both sets of kids - for the most part, the majority of them don't actually know whether they're winning or losing at any given point in time - even pitchers who've gone out, thrown 9 pitches, then gone back to bat - and getting an at bat in each inning - two innings in a row will be oblivious enough to ask - are we winning coach? Well kiddo, how many times did you score? twice? uh huh. Ok, and, how many kids did you let on base? none? oh, ok... YAY!! we're WINNING!

Ironically, the most fun most of these kids have had this year was against an all 02 boys team that was undefeated going into a game against us, we'd beaten them (by one) when time expired - but we made the decision to play one more anyway - and ended up losing, by one. The best "game" we'd had all season & the most fun almost all of the kids had - a loss.

Age 8-9 year olds? fun & learn.

I'll probably change my mind in a few years. I dont know that im looking forward to it.

 

[SBFAMILY]

If you have taken the ACE ASA test you will find your answer.

 

[02Crush]

I have to disagree (somewhat) with you Screwball. I do not coach to "Have fun" nor do I coach to "win". I coach to teach the game. I coach how to be better at the game. I coach how to play better. I coach how to adapt to the situation. And for many other reasons. I know I will not make everyone happy. If you are on my team you are there to learn...I feel like seeking other goals on a path towards excellence (or as close as we can try to come) will create a by product of winning. This philosophy has worked most every time I have come across it in life. I also feel that seeking to win (and acting as if you can only have fun if you are winning) is a goal that is self serving only to the adult. When adults/coaches act like absurd, rude, inconsiderate, angry babies b/c of a loss they are showing their players/kids that this is how you act when you loose. How do you think that applies later in life when things do not go there way????

Also, on a side note...I noticed in this post you mentioned girls as if different from boys. Yet in previous posts you are so set that we should not isolate girls as different from boys in the ways we coach or we treat them. I agree we should not treat them too differently.
So I was a little baffled upon your mention of girls dropping out more.....Study or no study...

Boys and Girls quit sports in large mass between 12-14 because 3 reasons...
(another consideration could be that the number for girls is larger due to less opportunities made available to them)
They have decided not to let their parents live through their actions in sport anymore
They have found another activity they prefer (social, music, art, or nothing at all)
They have less opportunity to play as it becomes more competitive to be on what few sports opportunities exist.

This seems common sense to me....

 

[02Crush]

BTW...Love the post as it does spark the thought processes a bit...

 

[packhand]

HI,
First time posting here. I like this forum alot of good topics. This is one of my favorites.

I have coached LL softball for the past 7 years or so and at least in my area, everyone plays to win. Well, from like 9u up they play to win. I rotate girls in and out but there are 3 or 4 on my team that just cant play certain positions. My DD and the entire team moved up from minors (9-10) to Majors (12-13) this year so it was a big learning curve. Teams we play usually have 4 to 5 girls that play TB also and they usually play C, P, SS and 1B in our games. We routinely see pitching in the high 40's to low 50's. Anyway, the teams we play keep the gas on until they secure the win. We got mercy ruled 2 or 3 times to start the season. It wasn't fun. These girls that come out to play "rec" ball as everyone calls it, they dont it see it as just playing around and dont care if they win. They come to play. I see the look on their faces when they are getting their teeth kicked in. These girls in "rec" ball are no different than girls in TB, they want to win and learn and get better. The only difference between rec girls and TB girls is the TB girls have more reps...I mean they are all still just 12 year old kids.
Anyway, the girls that cant play certain positions get the same reps in practice and get some IF play just not all the time. The parents usually see the difference in skill and don't complain. Some of the parents will work with their kid in the backyard in between practices and games and it shows. When I see that they are improving they get more time in the IF. I dont reward kids for just showing up to games. They have to responsible and earn it but it could be the smallest accomplishment too that earns them a little more playing time.

Anyway, it was a rough spring season, but my girls rose up to the challenge and got better each game. We started winning a few games here and there but I think the fact they were competitive in the later games made it that much more fun for the girls.

The best part is the look on the other coaches face if he was a TB coach with his TB girls that also played in our league would come to play and we would give them a game or even beat a few of them! They pitch their Ace and when we would start spraying the ball all over place was just a huge confidence booster for my girls.

 

[Frank S Branda]

Our priorities are player development, fun, and finally winning. In my mind, it's all related and built upon one another. Girls play better when they feel good and are having fun. When they see their own progress and know they are developing their skills, that allows them to play with more confidence. Also by removing negative criticism during a game, allows them to play without fear of failing, which means the games are more fun. Which means confidence, skills, and fun usually equates to more competitive games and more wins.

 

[Atlantabell]

Coaches need to focus on the process of playing the game correctly. They need to focus on teaching the skills, mental and physical, that will help kids learn how to win. There is fun in hard work, succeeding, etc. There is also fun in testing yourself. Pressure is something that kids need to learn how to handle ( wasn't there someone who said, "Pressure is a privilege. Embrace it.") It's all in how it is handled by the adults that makes the difference. We don't yell and scream at our kids. Some coaches do. That doesn't mean we don't correct mistakes, we just do it in a manner that is respectful to the player and that she will respond to. Not all kids respond the same.

Everyone wants to win all the time. I say if you are winning ALL the time you aren't challenging yourself enough ( at least at this level.)

 

[GTRH8R]

Coaches need to focus on the process of playing the game correctly. They need to focus on teaching the skills, mental and physical, that will help kids learn how to win. There is fun in hard work, succeeding, etc. There is also fun in testing yourself. Pressure is something that kids need to learn how to handle ( wasn't there someone who said, "Pressure is a privilege. Embrace it.") It's all in how it is handled by the adults that makes the difference. We don't yell and scream at our kids. Some coaches do. That doesn't mean we don't correct mistakes, we just do it in a manner that is respectful to the player and that she will respond to. Not all kids respond the same.

Everyone wants to win all the time. I say if you are winning ALL the time you aren't challenging yourself enough ( at least at this level.)

Well said...I'm bringing DD to tryout for you all.

 

[howellhandmade]

Chrystl Bustos says, focus on the process, not the outcome. It is fun to be good. It is fun to improve, and to exercise a hard-won skill. Since the value of a win is relative to the worthiness of the opponent, playing a superior opponent well can be rewarding, even fun, even if the result is a loss. If the team focus is on skill, improvement, fitness, awareness, and camaraderie, winning will take care of itself, given appropriate competition. Same for fun.

My daughter's TB coaches this past year focused on winning. Every game, every tournament, they told the girls that they were expected to win, and when they lost, the coaches told the girls that they were better than they showed, and dwelled on the mistakes that caused the loss. Even when they won there was little fun; after one win I heard the coach say, "You didn't win that game, you were simply a better team." There was no such thing as playing well and losing to a better team, every loss was the result of personal failure without which the team would have won. Consequently, the girls became frustrated and divided, and learned to fear mistakes because they knew that they would be blamed for a loss. Which resulted in more mistakes. The team practiced fairly well and did win some games, but the coaches were capable of making a 2-4 weekend feel like 0-6.

As a rec ball coach I do my best to focus on positives, and the girls win their share of games. They occasionally beat better teams, and rarely lose to weaker teams. I don't see any point in feeling entitled to win, or pretending that you're better than you are; you've got to play every single pitch like it's the only one of the game. The girls seem to have fun.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

When I was very young I remember watching Patton, and this quote is one that has stuck in my mind most of my life.

" When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, big league ball players, the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost, and will never lose a war... because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans."