1 and 1 count for a showcase?

JAD said:

Not sure why a pitcher would be upset with a 1-1 count...they are still ahead!

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Because if you throw a ball you are at the dreaded 2-1 count which has the biggest impact of any possible count. Throw a strike on 1-1 you say? Now the pitcher is at a disadvantage as they are always trying to throw a strike with a 1-1 count.

Nash's game theory hates starting with 1-1. Personally my pitchers don't care if we play with 3-2 counts.

Throwers have a hard time playing 1-1 or 2-1. Pitchers don't care as they can throw strikes on command. That's the difference between a thrower and a pitcher.

GunnerShotgun said:

Pitchers don't care as they can throw strikes on command.

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This is just as absurd a statement as those who claim a certain hitter can put it out of the park any time s/he wants to hit a home run.

MTR said:

The purpose of the 1-1 count in SP was not meant to speed up the game, but to facilitate more offense.

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The purpose for the 1-1 count in SP was definitely to speed the game up first and foremost.
Reason it was done, when you started with a full count (0-0), too many hitters would
take until the first strike. Was a total waste of game time for no reason. The 1-1 count basically
made the hitters get in the box ready to hit the first pitch if it was good. Not to get in the box and look at one or two pitches until a strike was thrown before being remotely willing to swing. Each at bat in SP is going to produce a ball in play (99.9% of the time). Better
it be the first pitch a better percentage of the time than the second or third pitch every at bat.

If you are going to have a 25-20 SP game...better it last 75 minutes than 90. And in a tourney with a ton of teams, each game you save time on, helps the tourney move faster. Especially when most SP tourneys went to one dayers and time crunched.

In FP, I would think the 1-1 count could help the better pitchers AND hitters and really
hinder the less controlled of both as well. Which maybe could be the point.

CoreSoftball20 said:

The purpose for the 1-1 count in SP was definitely to speed the game up first and foremost.

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Absolutely not correct. I'm sure you think you are, but I can tell you as a fact, you are wrong.

Reason it was done, when you started with a full count (0-0), too many hitters would
take until the first strike. Was a total waste of game time for no reason. The 1-1 count basically
made the hitters get in the box ready to hit the first pitch if it was good. Not to get in the box and look at one or two pitches until a strike was thrown before being remotely willing to swing. Each at bat in SP is going to produce a ball in play (99.9% of the time). Better it be the first pitch a better percentage of the time than the second or third pitch every at bat.

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No argument, but in many cases, that doesn't necessarily speed up the game among the better teams. It is more likely to speed up a game which is a mismatch by getting to the point where the run-rule would kick in.

Depending on the level of talent of the teams, it may actually prolong a game between two poor playing teams especially if they do not have a pitcher that can get it near the plate.

If you are going to have a 25-20 SP game...better it last 75 minutes than 90. And in a tourney with a ton of teams, each game you save time on, helps the tourney move faster. Especially when most SP tourneys went to one dayers and time crunched.

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90 minutes is way too long for a standard SP game with a HR limitation, championship play or rec, with or without a 1-1 count. Someone, maybe including the umpire, isn't hustling and doing their job. I've had games with 50-60 runs scored that only lasted 70 minutes.

In FP, I would think the 1-1 count could help the better pitchers AND hitters and really
hinder the less controlled of both as well. Which maybe could be the point.

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It definitely separates the players by level of talent and ability.

Think what you want MTR

CoreSoftball20 said:

Think what you want MTR

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It is not a matter of thinking what I want. It is a matter of knowing what I was doing and the target of the change when I proposed and submitted the change to the ASA general council in 2008. And yes, I was also in the room when it was discussed by the Player's Committee, Rules Committee and General Council.

It was nothing new as most teams were already playing locally with a 1-1 count for more than a decade and other sanctioning bodies had been using it. I just got it adopted for championship play.

CoreSoftball20 said:

Think what you want MTR

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Reminds me of my favorite umpire bit

Coach: can you throw me out for what I'm thinking?
Umpire: of course not!
Coach: great, cuz I think you $&@#!

Greenmonsters said:

Reminds me of my favorite umpire bit

Coach: can you throw me out for what I'm thinking?
Umpire: of course not!
Coach: great, cuz I think you $&@#!

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I actually had someone use that on me a few years back. Having heard it as a joke before, I sort of snickered.

With a smile on my face, "Not until you open your mouth and say it". I wasn't laughing at him, just smiling because I remembered what to say.