Starting with 8 Players

[MoJo]

Actual happenings of Youth Fastpitch Softball.

USSSA. Local Tournament over 2 days. Pool play (SAT) is 3 games. Single elimination (SUN)

During pool play Team Pretty Diamond has 9 players. During game 1 a player gets hurt and leaves.

Our turn to play Pretty Diamond. I happen to be scorekeeper and notice the lineup has 8. I ask HC if he talked about an auto out at the plate meeting...nope. HC asked PU about the 8 player team and PU said "No Out".

Quick look for a rule says there should be an out under 9 players.

 

[jackfrost]

depends if this tournament is going "by the book" or if there are local rules. Some local tournaments use modified rules and one rule I have seen often is no penalty for an injured player or even for a team playing shorthanded. I have also seen a 1 time penalty when the missing player misses their 1st at bat but no subsequent penalties. So check the modified rules for this tournament if you want to find the true answer.

 

[The Man In Blue]

The game should not have started with 8 players. I've run into that a few times. I usually hand the line up card back to the coach and tell him he forgot #51 at the bottom of the line up, and he probably forgot about her because her freckles are itching and she has a sprained ankle with malaria in the bathroom and didn't come back yet from the brain-freeze from the snowcones between games. Then, once the game starts, we can scratch her and play with 8 if she is injured and unable to play. You can finish with 8, you can't start with 8.

As for playing with 8 at a tournament, as @jackfrost said, you need to find out what the tournament is doing (or what the coaches agreed to, as you asked). Rarely is the written rule used because $$$.

As for the out or compress the line-up, most places just compress the line-up. Only one time have I seen a coach say, "No, we'll take the out, I want to make the point to my girls that they need to be here." I was really impressed with his sportsmanship ... until the tying run was on third base with two outs and the opposing coach intentionally walked the #8 hitter to end the game. He wasn't too happy then.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

You can finish with 8, you can't start with 8.

Is that true in all sanctions? I've played USSSA events where we were short and allowed to play. I know it could be a local tournament addendum, but the TD always allowed it.

Also, USA rules seem to indicate you can play shorthanded, even at the start.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Admittedly, looks like I missed that one ... Not offering a defense, but just saying that it is another USA rule that totally negates anything and everything.

So ... USA says you MUST have the REQUIRED number of players to start the game. That means you MUST have 9 players to start, unless you are playing with 10 players ... or 11 players ... or 8 players ... or however many players you have if you want to bat all 37 of them ... There is no actual number in this rule, so if 9 is required and you can use one less, then 8 is actually required ... unless you use one less than that requirement ...

So that means you can start with 7 or 8 or 15 1/2 ... Since the actual REQUIRED number is NOT actually REQUIRED, you could perpetually follow this loop and the coach can finally have his dream team (just his daughter) start the game both pitching and playing shortstop. Courtesy runners may be an issue, since USA says you must use a player who hasn't been in the game, unless you don't have one, and then you have to use the player whose birthday is furthest removed from the last lunar eclipse. If you don't have one of those, you can hold a national lottery and pull anybody you want from the 4th row of the bleachers ... unless there isn't a 4th row ...

Now, you can finish the game with one less than what you started with ... so you technically don't actually need any players to finish the game. In fact, one less would mean the coach's daughter actually got mad in the middle of the game and switched teams, leaving him with -1 since he has no players, but his player is still in the game ...

 

[_MIA_]

Hey Mojo started a thread bitching about umpires..I am shocked, simply shocked at this turn of events.

 

[MoJo]

USSSA FASTPITCH RULES & BY-LAWS 2022 (16th Ed.)
RULE 5. PLAYERS AND SUBSTITUTES
Sec 2. SHORT-HANDED RULEE: Playing short-handed is an exception to Rule 5-1 above. A team shall be allowed to play with one batting position unfilled, provided they have a minimum of 8 batters present. The vacant batting position will be designated as the absent player. Whenever the absent player is scheduled to bat, an out shall be declared. A team may play short-handed under the following circumstances:
B. A team may begin the game short-handed. The absent player must be listed in the ninth (9th) batting position. Under no circumstances shall a team be allowed to have less than eight (8) players in the batting order.


Tournament Info had no special instructions.

 

[_MIA_]

USSSA FASTPITCH RULES & BY-LAWS 2022 (16th Ed.)
RULE 5. PLAYERS AND SUBSTITUTES
Sec 2. SHORT-HANDED RULEE: Playing short-handed is an exception to Rule 5-1 above. A team shall be allowed to play with one batting position unfilled, provided they have a minimum of 8 batters present. The vacant batting position will be designated as the absent player. Whenever the absent player is scheduled to bat, an out shall be declared. A team may play short-handed under the following circumstances:
B. A team may begin the game short-handed. The absent player must be listed in the ninth (9th) batting position. Under no circumstances shall a team be allowed to have less than eight (8) players in the batting order.


Tournament Info had no special instructions.

Sue them for the pain and suffering it caused..

 

[The Man In Blue]

Short hands just mean you need longer gloves?

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

"No, we'll take the out, I want to make the point to my girls that they need to be here." I was really impressed with his sportsmanship ... until the tying run was on third base with two outs and the opposing coach intentionally walked the #8 hitter to end the game. He wasn't too happy then.

That's f'n bush league. The guy is giving you a free out every two innings or so and you pull that crap. Just F'n shameful.