What is "Turning the Triangle"?

[MVLA Softball]

The video may not work with certain web browsers. I use Firefox.

What guy are you talking about? What does 3/31 and 4/31 mean?

I'll try Firefox. What I mean by 4/31 -- I should have said 4 of 31. There are 31 videos that I can view if I go to the one you identified. The direct link to the one of greatest interest (#4) is
Who is the speaker? -

 

[Tewks]

I'll try Firefox. What I mean by 4/31 -- I should have said 4 of 31. There are 31 videos that I can view if I go to the one you identified. The direct link to the one of greatest interest (#4) is
Who is the speaker? -

That is Sam Horn. We were his host family when I was in high school. We had some great discussions about hitting afterward. He's going to bring me game tapes to see if what he says matches up with what he did. The part about swinging down is interesting. Saw a recent Pujols clip of him speaking with McGwire about swinging down too. When you hit against 90+, it can feel like you are just dropping the barrel on the ball. The swings where he demo's hitting a high pitch shows him "turning the triangle." I remember watching him play and I don't remember getting so far onto the front foot... but we'll see.

 

[TDS]

I am definitely not taking this personal. I do want you to try it though and post your results. I disagree that it promotes "disconnection." I feel it promotes the exact opposite.

I have tried Richards aggressive drill and the results were disconnection. How does this drill help you in progression? Is this the drill You use to teach students to get the hands flat?

 

[BoardMember]

Richards hand pivot stuff seems like a whole lot of work. A tight HPP can be accomplished by simply resisting/pulling back with the top hand. If the lead arm is doing it's job, and the top hand is resisting that job, all this stuff happens automatically........Lateral tilt, reward blur, your triangle turns, the hand pivot stays tight, the hips lead, and thrust to get the barrel caught up.......

Why work SO hard at something that can be "bypassed" with the right acitons.......

 

[Tewks]

I have tried Richards aggressive drill and the results were disconnection. How does this drill help you in progression? Is this the drill You use to teach students to get the hands flat?

What are the chances you will post video of the attempts?

 

[Tewks]

Richards hand pivot stuff seems like a whole lot of work. A tight HPP can be accomplished by simply resisting/pulling back with the top hand. If the lead arm is doing it's job, and the top hand is resisting that job, all this stuff happens automatically........Lateral tilt, reward blur, your triangle turns, the hand pivot stays tight, the hips lead, and thrust to get the barrel caught up.......

Why work SO hard at something that can be "bypassed" with the right acitons.......

BM, this drill is a progression. Sometimes when you work with a player, you need to push them to promote a feeling. In a game, it is "see the ball, hit the ball" but in a training environment and until adequate muscle memory is developed, you use all the tools in your belt to get the player where they need to be. This is merely another tool and should be fixated on as it pertains to an individual player.

As far as making it something harder than it is... that is a matter of personal style. Sheffield says he is so violent to help him with timing. I played with somebody in college who had pretty "violent" pre-swing movements for the same reason. When the coaches tried to take it away his freshman year, he struggled. They let him go back to his style and he finished the season as a Freshman All-American.

Can you elaborate about the job of the lead arm?

 

[cartersball]

I have tried Richards aggressive drill and the results were disconnection. How does this drill help you in progression? Is this the drill You use to teach students to get the hands flat?

TDS,

The above quote among some of the other posts I have read this morning that you have made concerning this drill lead me to believe that your attempts were not well synched. What I mean is, in doing this as well as hitting with the Strech and Fire
drill is that if you do not get the HPP and the rear hip in synch, working together as if one, you end up with something that is very disconnected. Just like an other drill, if not done properly, the desired result is not achieved. I encourage you to keep trying. If you choose not to, that is alright as well. It may not be what works for you. It has however worked for many others, which is why Tewks and I present it in the manner we do.
To answer your question about progression, I find with myself and my students/players that this synchage is difficult to achieve due to various factors. The biggest two culprits I have seen in causing trouble with getting synched are kids who want to pull with the upper half or lead shoulder to deliver the barrel to the ball, and inefficient weight transfer. This drill helps to fight those two problems tremendously IMO. As far as using this particular one legged drill to teach getting the hands flat, I would not suggest it. Students need to learn how to get the hands flat and incorporate the rear hip before attempting this.

 

[Wellphyt]

I'm still not sold on the concept of the swivel or turning the triangle. However I do agree that whatever you choose to call it; the feel is in the hands.

The last three times I took my DD to the cages, her first few swings resulted in what would have been lazy fly balls. After her first few swings I reminded her to get her top hand working to get the bat started, and each time the result was more line drives.

I think I made a small mistake early on when we first started with Epstein's material when she was 9, by totally taking out all hand action. We just pretty much stuck to the bat on the deltoid set up for a couple of years. My DD seems to be benefitting from an added focus on learning how to correctly use her hands to get the bat started.

 

[Cannonball]

Richards hand pivot stuff seems like a whole lot of work. A tight HPP can be accomplished by simply resisting/pulling back with the top hand. If the lead arm is doing it's job, and the top hand is resisting that job, all this stuff happens automatically........Lateral tilt, reward blur, your triangle turns, the hand pivot stays tight, the hips lead, and thrust to get the barrel caught up.......

Why work SO hard at something that can be "bypassed" with the right acitons.......

As most of you know, I'm not a swivel person either. I agree with BM here and would suggest that anyone that has seen the bungee cord expercise promoted by SE would understand that that simple action gets a lot accomplished. In fact, I believe BM describes the results appropriately. I'm not at liberty to explain that but, perhaps, MarkH would.

 

[Shawn]

I'm trying to understand everyones input.

I wanted to use these two clips,

Pujols is hitting a lefty in this clip, I believe it was something off-speed or a breaking pitch that didn't break. Since I posted it I have the pitcher view as well.

Compared to Bustos, She start with the hands infront of the back shoulder. The back elbow leads, although compared to the Pujols clip he is doing something else as compared to Bustos.

Bustos takes everything backwards, the hands, bat/barrel, or walks away from the hands. The barrel is not turning just because it moves backwards. She is literally moving the entire bat backwards, away from the body. The back elbow is leading, staying behind the top hand during this action. At foot plant, the lead arm achieves connection, X-factor, kinetic linketc. etc.,.

At that point the axes created from the lead shoulder/hand and hands is achieved or stabilized. Factor in the the beginning point of the hands, barrel, and their movement during the stride, and you have something that is much tighter then most girls/women. Yet still a little more casting then typical, nothing compared to many fastpitch hitters because of phoney setups (both elbows pointing down, hand in front of back shoulder.

All hitters have some similarities, and there are differences. There isn't huge differences in most hand and arm action, loading, etc.,.

Pujols, while similar as some differences.

I have both clips and will show what I think is different between the two hitters.