What is the correct scorekeepng on this play?

[CoogansBluff]

Ordinary effort and/or the alternative approach for F9 would have been to take a step or two at an angle back and to the foul line, catch it on the one hop, let R3 score for the tying run, and try to throw out R2 at home to prevent the winning run.

Whether the fielder makes a good choice on how to make that play is irrelevant to the scoring. It's solely a question of whether she made a physical error in attempting to catch it. She did not.

Also, regarding single vs. double, did the batter attempt second base? Not sure that's a good idea. There would be the risk of being thrown out before the winning run can score. Unlikely, but not sure I'd be trying that.

 

[JAD]

With two outs the runners should be moving on contact, so two runs will score easily if the ball is not caught, so in my book it goes as two RBI single, and if I was the coach after the game I would call out the RF and commend her for giving 110%!!!

 

[Greenmonsters]

No way can you convince me that under any circumstance you can call an error on F9.

Under the described circumstances, I agree. But if the game isn't on the line, a ball that F9 could have (and should have) fielded on one hop with routine effort but instead dives and knocks it away should NOT be a HR!

I have some questions about the original play, although its probaby a HTBT (had to be there) situation. I understand that F9 dove for a hard line drive, got short hopped and deflected the ball to the side fence in foul territory. Given the situation, F9 should have been playing shallow enough to be able to prevent R2 from scoring on ANY ball in front of her as that runner represented the winning run. This makes me think that either she wasn't properly positioned (coach's responsibility IMO) or that NOT diving would've conceeded the tieing run, but would not have allowed the winning run to score. I am surprised that F8 is noted as retrieving the ball. But this is probably a moot point as F9 likely knew that the game was over when she didn't come up with the play; alternatively, the ball rolled in fair territory to the OF fence near the foul line and it would make sense that F8 retrieved it.

IMHO, scorekeeping for 14U travel ball should be by the book and hold players accountable so that they know that they have earned their hits, extra base hits (i.e., not getting false credit for advancing on a throw elsewhere), errors, PBs, WPs, earned runs etc and can identify their strengths and weaknesses in order to improve. YMMV.

 

[Greenmonsters]

With two outs the runners should be moving on contact, so two runs will score easily if the ball is not caught, so in my book it goes as two RBI single, and if I was the coach after the game I would call out the RF and commend her for giving 110%!!!

I agree that F9 should be commended under the described circumstances. However, I don't necessarily agree that it was an automatic 2 runs. Unless it was 3 or 4 hitter, I'd typically position F9 shallow enough to prevent that, particularly with a RH hitter. But we don't know what batter in the order it was, what she had done previously v. same pitcher, whether it was a RH or LH hitter, how the hitter was being pitched, etc. etc. If the circumstances were different, then....

 

[CoogansBluff]

Under the described circumstances, I agree. But if the game isn't on the line, a ball that F9 could have (and should have) fielded on one hop with routine effort but instead dives and knocks it away should NOT be a HR! ...

IMHO, scorekeeping for 14U travel ball should be by the book and hold players accountable so that they know that they have earned their hits, extra base hits (i.e., not getting false credit for advancing on a throw elsewhere), errors, PBs, WPs, earned runs etc and can identify their strengths and weaknesses in order to improve. YMMV.

Scoring by the book and holding players accountable are two different things. You do one or the other, not both. Scoring by the book frequently gives players hits or errors that they didn't ''earn.''

I don't believe it's the scorekeeper's job to determine what decisions fielders should have made. That's the coach's job. Scorekeepr's job is to document whether she made it or not.

Also, who is to say that the batter didn't ''earn'' a HR for putting the fielder in that kind of dilemma, either hold her to a single, or take a chance on earning for her team the most coveted thing in the game besides a run -- which is an out.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Whether the fielder makes a good choice on how to make that play is irrelevant to the scoring. It's solely a question of whether she made a physical error in attempting to catch it. She did not.

Also, regarding single vs. double, did the batter attempt second base? Not sure that's a good idea. There would be the risk of being thrown out before the winning run can score. Unlikely, but not sure I'd be trying that.

I agree that midjudgement is not an error; however, that is recognized by giving the batter a H. The question is whether the glove deflecting the ball to the fence and giving the batter 3 extra bases should be an error or not. A similar situation that is more obvious would be an OF sprinting in to try to catch a shallow pop up but pulling up at the last second and in doing so kicking the ball away so that the runner advances - that's clearly a H and an E. Its probably a HTBT!

 

[CoogansBluff]

I agree that midjudgement is not an error; however, that is recognized by giving the batter a H. The question is whether the glove deflecting the ball to the fence and giving the batter 3 extra bases should be an error or not. A similar situation that is more obvious would be an OF sprinting in to try to catch a shallow pop up but pulling up at the last second and in doing so kicking the ball away so that the runner advances - that's clearly a H and an E. Its probably a HTBT!

I see what you're saying. Probably HTBT. But unless she should've been able to glove it or prevent it from getting away, it still might have to be a HR.

 

[Sweet Lou]

I agree that midjudgement is not an error; however, that is recognized by giving the batter a H. The question is whether the glove deflecting the ball to the fence and giving the batter 3 extra bases should be an error or not. A similar situation that is more obvious would be an OF sprinting in to try to catch a shallow pop up but pulling up at the last second and in doing so kicking the ball away so that the runner advances - that's clearly a H and an E. Its probably a HTBT!

meh, I've seen balls scored inside of the park HRs on more than one occasion at the MLB level in plays very similar to what the OP described happening. If you dive and miss or deflect the ball you never get penalized for that as a fielder.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Scoring by the book and holding players accountable are two different things. You do one or the other, not both. Scoring by the book frequently gives players hits or errors that they didn't ''earn.''

I don't believe it's the scorekeeper's job to determine what decisions fielders should have made. That's the coach's job. Scorekeepr's job is to document whether she made it or not.

Also, who is to say that the batter didn't ''earn'' a HR for putting the fielder in that kind of dilemma, either hold her to a single, or take a chance on earning for her team the most coveted thing in the game besides a run -- which is an out.

I admittedly expressed my opinion poorly. I believe that people should be accountable for their actions - its the norm in the real world to evaluate people by their performance. In SB and BB, statistics are the best available indicators we have to evaluate performance; they are not perfect, but with scorekeeping applied consistently, they are comparable with known limitations.

And, yes, a scorekeeper should record what happens, whereas accountability and decision making should be left in the hands of the players and coaches.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I see what you're saying. Probably HTBT. But unless she should've been able to glove it or prevent it from getting away, it still might have to be a HR.

HTBT or we'll just have to put it in the same category as a Jose Canseco head-aided HR.