USA- Any changes to Rule 8.2.M?

[Comocoach]

Discussion with a few of my softball buddies about the double base. In my 2014 rule book, 8.2.M basically states the double base becomes one big bag that may be used by offense or defense after batter/runner passes it. One friend believes the orange bag essentially disappears after the initial play, and that neither offense or defense may use it. He umps in our USA slowpitch league and says several other umpires agree with him. I'd like to set them straight. Have there been any changes to this rule since 2014?

 

[MaverickAH]

No. Nothing has changed since 2014. First base is still one big bag after the initial play & can be used by either offense or defense.

 

[Comp]

If I'm not mistaken usssa slow pitch has some different rules about the double first base

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[MTR]

If I'm not mistaken usssa slow pitch has some different rules about the double first base

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There's a shocker!

 

[The Man In Blue]

In the 2019 book it is now 8.2.N ...

USA Softball ... batter runner must use orange and defense must use white when a play is being made on the batter runner. If the batter runner uses the white, it is an appeal play and the batter runner is out on a proper appeal. 8.2.N(3). If the batter runner uses white and collides with a fielder using white, it is interference on the batter runner.

A defensive play from the foul side or errant throw negates this rule. 8.2.N(4) and 8.2.N(5).

After the play on the batter runner, it becomes one big base for everybody. 8.2.N(6 - 9)

 

[MTR]

If the batter runner uses white and collides with a fielder using white, it is interference on the batter runner.

It should be noted that this only applies when there is a play on the BR.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Good note — I kind of assumed that people would get that.

The rule is laid out kind of strangely in the book (that part is at the end with no special designation), but that is why I tacked that in with that segment of the summary.

 

[testandor]

A defensive play from the foul side or errant throw negates this rule. 8.2.N(4) and 8.2.N(5).

While I (sort of) get the point of the double bag, rule 8.2.N.5 is possibly the most poorly thought out (or, I should say, NOT thought out) rule in the book! An errant throw on a force out at any other base - including the plate - that pulls the fielder off the bag is a safe call every time! There is not one good reason that an equally errant throw to 1B that pulls the fielder off the bag toward the 1B dugout should be negated because she dragged her foot off the bag, but in doing so got lucky because she touched something else that's there for some other reason. Total BS!

 

[MTR]

While I (sort of) get the point of the double bag, rule 8.2.N.5 is possibly the most poorly thought out (or, I should say, NOT thought out) rule in the book! An errant throw on a force out at any other base - including the plate - that pulls the fielder off the bag is a safe call every time! There is not one good reason that an equally errant throw to 1B that pulls the fielder off the bag toward the 1B dugout should be negated because she dragged her foot off the bag, but in doing so got lucky because she touched something else that's there for some other reason. Total BS!

Well, originally it was only if the play was coming from foul territory which means the defender had to get/catch the ball from/in foul territory and then come back to the colored base. This pretty much assured the defender would have to avoid OBS to get the ball. After a few years there was a shift in the hierarchy that changed the interpretation that permitted the defender to go up for a bad throw and come down in the BRs path on the colored base. Quite a few umpires objected believing this actually reduced the safety factor the base was supposed to provide.

IMO, the base was a substitute for proper training and poor play.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I would also add to that ... keep in mind that USA Softball and USSSA softball do NOT write rule books for youth sports. They write rulebooks for adults trying to relive their glory days or playing in beer leagues and then try to adapt them to youth sports.