Look Back Rule - USSSA vs USA Rulesets

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Nov 18, 2015
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USSSA Rule 8.2:
The LOOK-BACK RULE is in effect when the ball is live, the batter-runner has touched first base or has been declared out, and the pitcher has possession of the ball (e.g. has the ball in their hand, glove, under arm or chin, between their legs) within the 16-foot circle.

USA Rule, as originally quoted by TMIB in this thread, is nearly verbatim with USSSA. However, USA has the criteria as 3 separate items (1-3), and USSSA includes all three in a single sentence. Additionally, and it's hard to tell the way it's formatted in the other thread, USA Rule 8, Sect. 7.T(A) contains the phrase " (A) When a Runner is legitimately off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat,..."

USSSA does not use the word "pitch", as with USA above. Does this mean for USSSA, LBR is ONLY applied at the end of an AB (Walk / Hit / D3K / etc.), since there isn't a batter-runner any other time? . Has this difference always been there (it's been the same since 2017 from what I can tell), or did something get changed unintentionally during a previous update?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious, since this doesn't seem to have been discussed recently.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
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Florida
USSSA Rule 8.2:

I feel like I'm missing something obvious, since this doesn't seem to have been discussed recently.

In the USSSA rulebook it may not be the most well-written sentence ever, but LBR applies does apply for all pitches. I guess the easiest way to think about it is that if there is no batter-runner on a subsequent pitch but there is a runner on-base - at one point they were a batter-runner and the second criteria has been met.
 
Jun 22, 2008
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The only real difference in the lookback rule between all the rulesets (except ncaa) is that most rulesets simply state possession of the ball by the pitcher in the circle. Short of actually laying the ball on the ground the pitcher is considered to be in possession of the ball.

USA softball requires possession and control. The ball must physically be held in the hand or in the glove on the pitchers hand. If they put the ball under their arm, between their legs or under their chin this is not considered control and the lookback rule is not in effect.
 
Aug 25, 2019
1,066
113
In this video, there clearly is a LBR violation at first, but is there also one at 3rd? When I took USA class this winter, I believe I learned ( I may be wrong) that you can only call one LBR per play, is that right? Is the pitcher reacting to first negate the LBR at 3rd?

 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
The ball should have been dead before the runner at 3rd ever did anything. But, once the pitcher made a feint toward 1st the lookback rule was off.
 

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